So friends, here is the resolution on the 6th CPC even before the official release. Nothing to gain for the armed forces as far as the status aspect is concerned.
Though this resolution is for civilian employees, but it shall give you a broad idea of the modalities of pay fixation and the scales.
The problematic areas vis-à-vis the defence services mainly relate to the pay and status of Lt Col and the status of Brigadier.
The earlier pay equation till the rank of Brig was :
I. Lt/JTS
II. Capt/STS
III. Maj/JAG
IV. Lt Col/NFSG
V. DIG
VI. Col
VII. Brig
This has been changed by the 6th CPC and approved by the Cabinet into :
I. Lt (0) /JTS (0)
II. Capt (2)
III. Maj (6) / STS (4)
IV. Lt Col (13) / JAG (9)
V. Col (20) / NFSG (13)
VI. Brig (28) / DIG (14)
(JTS – Junior Time Scale, STS – Senior Time Scale, JAG – Junior Administrative Grade, NFSG – Non-Functional Selection Grade. The numbers in brackets are the requisite years of service to reach the rank)
While the downgradation of the ranks of Capt and Major does not pinch much because the time-frame of promotions has been brought down, it is the ranks of Lt Col and Brig where we have suffered a set back. The logical system of ranking should have been Lt/JTS – Capt – STS – Major – Lt Col / NFSG – DIG – Col – Brig. Now officially, a Major has been brought down to Senior Time Scale (STS) level. A Lt Col is now equivalent to Junior Adm Grade (JAG) and a Col has been equated with Non-Functional Selection Grade (NFSG). The rank of a DIG who was till date between a Lt Col and a Colonel is now officially equal to a Brigadier. Both are now on a Grade Pay of Rs 8900.
The only consolation is that the Air Chief in his capacity of Officiating Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee, has already thrown a (constructive) spanner in the works.
GOVT RESOLUTION / NOTIFICATION FOR THE SIXTH PAY COMMISSION
Click here for Part 1 of the notification
Click here for Part 2 of the notification
Click here for Part 3 of the notification
Some highlights of the resolution :
1. Pay Bands-1, 2 and 4 amended to 5200-20200, 9300-34800 and 37400-6700 respectively.
2. A new Pay Band of Rs 75500-80000 introduced.
3. Grade Pay of 6100 improved to 6600, 6600 improved to 7600, 7600 improved to 8700, 8400 improved to 8900, 9000 improved to 10000 and 11000 improved to 12000.
4. Edge of IAS officers in Grade Pays abolished, they are now to be granted two additional increments in the same scale and grade pay.
5. The time period of 14 years to attain the Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) for IAS officers again reverted back to 16 years.
6. Multiple factor changed to 1.86 and increment raised to 3%.
7. Campus restriction for transport allowance abolished. Officers staying within the campus also authorized to Transport Allowance. Transport Allowance to be Rs 3200 for Lieutenants/JTS and above in A1/A class cities and Rs 1600 in other cities. DA to be paid on Transport Allowance.
8. Anomalies Committees to examine individual, post-specific and cadre-specific anomalies. The Anomalies Committees to complete their work in one year.
9. CPMFs/CPOs to be granted same allowances as defence services.
10. HRA to be 30% of Basic+Grade Pay+MSP+NPA in X class cities (50 lac+), 20% in Y class cities (5-50 lac) and 10% in Z class cities (less than 5 lac).
108 comments:
But nothing has been said about the denfence personnel in this notification. Where is the notification for defence personnel.
Raj
Its very demoralising for lt cols of military
lt colnels need to quit the military now there is no option left for them.
the 6CPC was planned ina way so that lt colnes are forced to leave military.
It is a great injustice done to the Lt Cols who are the backbone of Army.
Hope Dr. Manmohan Singh and his secretaries would correct the anomaly soon otherwise the backbone will be weakened .
Army is the last dependable instrument of the state.
Hope Govt, ministers and bureaucrats won't break its backbone.
what about services?
where is the notification/details in r/o military pers?
1. THE NOTIFICATION HAS NOT SPOKEN ABOUT THE DEFENCE FORCES..
2. LET US DO SOME MORE WISHFUL THINKING BEFORE IT COMES IN BLACK AND WHITE...
3. AS IF NOW DEFINATELY THE PICTURE IS NOT VERY ROSY...
4. THE OUTPUT WILL BE AN INDICATOR OF THE STANDING(OUKAT) OF CHIEFS IN FRONT OF THE GOVT...
5. LET US HOPE FOR THE BEST...
Where are the Armed Forces notfn....also this is silent completely on the Travel entitlements.....
the notification says it will be issued be respective ministries of railways and defence...
wait and watch....
i m getting a bad feeling as if now...
Chief has no standing howsoever in a country like ours. Had this be then they would have fought for it right when the revised 6CPC was declared on this years independence day. Just cannot expect any thing from these ------
its high time now to say good by to army. thanks to army,we need to see some other avenues out side.
s it say that..?
i joined army against the wishes of everyone...today i feel cheated...and i ve to have a relook at my career...is it time to leave?
every thing has come to an end. its all over,good by.
people at top have eaten the mango and thrown the seeds for the people in ranks below
never join army against wishes of your parents because parents alwaya know better than you know. they know that if a person 'has it in him' he will never join army.keepig a false hope on army will doom you.jump for another carrer.
HOW CAN THEY FORGET THAT SOLDIERS FIGHT FOR IZZAT AND NOT FOR MONEY..(NOT WITHSTANDING THE OUR HARDSHIPS MUST BE COMPENSATED).AND THE WHOLE ISSUE OF PAY COMMISSION WAS TO GET THE RIGHT RESPECTABLE PLACE IN THE GOVT AND SOCIAL SETUP WHICH UNFORTUNATELY WAS LINKED WITH GRADE PAY..
DISGUSTING...THOSE WHO FEEL THEIR STATUS IS ENHANCED CAN DO SOLDIERING
The 6CPC is not ment for lt col because in this every thig has relatively come down instead of rising.it would have been better that lt cols be kept in old V PC scales.
some lt cols are in a false hope of Top bosses doing some thing for them. Just forget it. Is all over, no one at top is bothered. Its just an eye wash.
dont worry about status, grade pay determines seniority in that specific cadre. Now fight for your dues
Only four grades of Civil Services are getting PB-4, NFSG, DIG, SAG, HAG - similarly four grade of Armed forces are also getting PB-4 - Col , Brig, Maj Gen & Lt Gen. Where is the injustice ? More over Lt Col is a non select post after AVSC report, all make it to Lt Col after 13 years while NFSG post is given to only 20% officers of the Civil / Police Cadre that too based on vacancy as per cadre structure. Just think is it logical and justified to demand PB-4 for Lt Col ? It will not only only create but also compound already existing internal administrative and operational problem for armed forces in long run as there will be no motive to distinguish between average and excellent officers as every one from 13 years (young Lt Col) service to 38 years ( Senior Lt Gen) will be in same pay band. The pay difference between a Brig/Maj Gen/ Lt Gen and an average officer of rank of Lt Col will not be there as Maj Gen & Lt Gen will not be getting MSP. armed forces must rethink before taking this populist but questionable step, effect of which will be visible only in long run.
why do you want so much pay difference between a lt col and cols pay ??? stop thinking low, this is th biggest problem of top ranks. think one step more than civil administrative oficcers and go for 5 instead of four grades
lt cols will be benefited financially in long run if they are placed in PB4
Well if u create so much gap between Lt col and colonel then effects will show up in short time rather than long run
Bonded labours as we are.leave army at the earliest..
It is high time that Lt Cols of army realized the ground reality and decide future course of action. Post Bagga/AVSC-I they were equivalent to a Joint Director pay-wise and a Dy Director functionally, but probably living in a fool's paradise. Now the position has already been clarified by Govt and there is no confusion. Lt Cols are equivalent to Jt Directors as was existing earlier. Now go hop
the department specific details are yet to come and govt has set up something to look into the post and cadre specific anomalies , lets see what they do
If a Lt Col & equivalent in Navy and IAF is equated to a Civ Dir, then do we intend to equate Col/Brig/Maj Gen/Lt Gen/Lt Gen(Army Cdr)and their equivalents to Civ Jt Secy/Addl Secy/Secy/Cabinet Secy/Cabinet Min respectively? If yes what about the Services Chiefs? Any ans? Navy/IAF. Cdr/Capt(IN)/Cmde) working as Jt Dir/Dir/p Dir. Any comments?
DEAR FRIENDS....
READ IAS ASSO...'S COMMENTS...
REMEMBER HIM WHEREEVER U GO.....
IT WILL HELP U IN DOING UR JOB BETTER WHEN U REACH THE TOP ...
JUST DONT FORGET HIS REMARKS....HE HAS LAID THE FOUNDATION STONE FOR CHANGE..WE MAY BE DOWN BUT NOT OUT YET...
'NOW GO HOP' says dear ias asso. Well said, man ! We will never forget your kind words. We give our lives for you and this is what you give us. I am proud of you. BRAVO.
Disgusting is what I can say.
No Hope. Let the Cols and Brigs (Middle level Officers) work. All Lt Cols just sit and relax. Remember the Naukri.com ad. We are indeed working for peanuts.
I wrote this elsewhere too,
Dear Readers,
Please remember that every one is important.
And this discussion is really beyond comparison.
We in the Army always fail to make inroads in the civilian psyche as their(civs) last word is always..."its your Job"
We need to compare things their way.
Can any civilian tell me that for his duty he stood in Minus 5 degrees in ice and sleet, wet feet... throughout the night without food , warmth and then worked through out the day......and then another night and another day.....?
Look its beyound comparison. No its not just our Job. thats what they dont understand.
We need to compare with the pay scale per hour we work. A civilian may work 9-5 and come to office at10 and leave at tea time at 3PM.....and if the Army guy works he is there 15 mins earlier and leaves after another half hour ....if he is lucky...mostly we know we continue till we FINISH the days assignments....and often come back for night training....
Our Generals need to tell the bosses that be that our jawan doesnt end the day at 4PM like the civ Gp D/C/B but will get back get a break of two hours and go back out on night duty.....
and this is a routene in PEACE AREAS....!
sir its just beyond compare.
Civilian employees have not given up your civil liberties...most civilians dont live away from their families for 80% of their lives....Hey ARMY is beyond compare....
My Jawan CANNOT say ITs NOT his JOB...or the time for the day is up...If a man doesnt come for fifteen days (in our local audit office)....the job stops till he comes moves the file to the next table...and then the next person is on leave by then.....)Officers cant say i wont do it....Infact Most Officers are doing the job of 5-6 officers that is the level of shortage...and our job profile continues to increase....Its beyond comprehension for civilian employees that the in the army an officer replies EACH letter within time (and mostly by return mail!)-the only base perhaps we could do a similar job and that too we do with a huge difference...
we are beyond compare.
And also like Army our Paramilitary need to be acknowledged too...although they have certain limitations of training,equipment, and even work culture...but they too are stressed beyond compare...they are not even given peace stations....such is the apathy... they too cannot be compared with civilian employees.
We need a seperate comission...the anger is Too large in the Army...ALL IS NOT WELL ON THIS FRONT ...hope the country realises it soon.
Lets start by asking parity and being paid for the hours we put in every week...and HOLIDAYS too....(For our civilian readers who do not have any idea that 10 Lakh people work on holidays too---WITHOUT TAKING AN additional OFF ON THE FOLLOWING DAY!)
And in all this i havent even started to compare the danger to life and limb...early retirement...strict discpline...loss of basic Human rights you know...like HOW many group B/A people can really understand what it takes to enter a house with a suspected militant inside?....and do it 30-40 times a day?
IS IT JUST OUR 'JOB'?
Contrymen I beg to differ.
Actually YOUR ARMY IS SEETHING...remember....we still protect you....what if they fired on us and we just walked away.....
ALAS that was never an option...Please dont tell us ITS OUR JOB. We KNOW IT....DO YOU???
Think.
WE ARE BEYOND COMPARE
Hoping for some justice...just some....For our men specially... the best soldier in the world...most unassuming and the most courageous....we have a duty to them.
Our Generals cannot fail us its not an option. ANYMORE.
Pl ignore the comment by the so called IAS Association. It is a fake.
No IAS officer worth his salt would use terms such as 'Jt Dir' or 'Dy Dir'. There are no such designations in pay commission / official-technical parlance. Jt Dir / Dy Dir / Addl Dir etc are just posts and not grades/ranks. Grades are always referred as JTS, STS, JAG, NFSG etc.
It seems to be a note from some officer in an inter-service org or from MES, GREF etc
dear friends
if the present anamolies are not resolved it is the begining of the end for the armd forces and the nation. this is a make and break time. in any case there is no point giving your life or valuable time to such a thankless country where the armd forces have to fight for their own survival against its govt and useless babus.the so called govt and the babus adm is never visible whenever this country needs them. take ex of floods in bihar. army is the only agency working there and saving lives. so called babus and netas are simply waiting to syphon off the relief package announced by the centeral govt. there is a need for all of us to resign and make a team to defeat the evil designs of these babus and politicians. this country needs its patriots to patrol its streets than the borders.
viru.
Even if one agree with our civilian friend who is deadly against equating Lt.Cols with those NFSGs in pay scale S24, it is a fact that Lt.Cols were drawing higher pay than their civilian brothers in NFSGs till now has been brought down without any reason when everybody is vouch for to make armed forces more attractive! Hope it will get resolved. Suresh
hell with the organisation which makes army officers just slave who can not their mouth due to army act.
atleast media come in to it and declare that if you are joining army you are just a class two officer.
as a measure of protest all lt col should take one day CL on one particular day and get together at one particular place peacefully.
What has happened to Armed forces notification ???? When will it be declared ??? Any news ??? MAJOR NAVDEEP CAN YOU PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THIS.
@ANONYMOUS aug 29 11:34am
you said only 20% make to NSFG at the service of 13 years.
you have very wrong info civil and police officers are making it to NSFG and that means they get into pay band four
just the news in dainik jagran on 29 aug about ips officers where all ips officers of 95 are about to get the NSFG.
the only thing is that if govt of india and top brass feels that as an army officers they are joining a class two job then it should be properly announced in media and public
Let us not let the matter settle down till the time Lt Cols who are the backbone of this army get their rightful due. Remember all that media hype about a disgruntled force and how people are leaving in droves? Army's case was built around the rank of Lt Col and now they are the ones who have got the most raw deal. Are our Generals listening? Pl do and react otherwise we will have nothing but contempt left for you.
Friends do not be so pessimistic bcoz:-
[a] Notification for defence personnel has not been announced so far
[b] The case for the the anomaly has been taken up
so why is every one assuming that the 'we are done in'.
Sailor
SOURCE : STAFFCORNER.COM
Copy of a letter written by an Army officer (a Brig) to the defence minister Shri.AK Antony is given below
The writer has clearly brought out the disparity which our government shows to men in uniform. I wish our top brass have the same vision, clarity and integrity when they take up the cases of junior officers and men as this writer
DISPARITY & DESPAIR :KABUL BOMB BLAST
My Dear Sir,
1.It was indeed a noble gesture by the PM. As per news paper reports, the PM was so impressed by the devotion to duty of late Mr Rao, the IFS officer who died in the Kabul bomb blast, that he announced several benefits for his next of kin. These include, full salary and government accommodation till the officer would have retired in 2023. It is undisputable that every possible succour must be provided to the bereaved family under such circumstances. Yet, without prejudice to this thought or to the sacred memory of the deceased, certain politically incorrect questions arise?
2.What separates the case of Mr Rao from that of Brig RD Mehta, or for that matter Col V Vasanth and scores of other army personnel who lay down their lives in the line of duty, actively combating terrorism almost every day? Why has no one ever thought of such benefits for their families? Is there any doubt about their devotion to duty? Are their lives any less precious to their families, or to the nation? Or is it 'no big deal' because it is part of the professional hazards for services personnel, to lay down their lives? The violent death of a diplomat or bureaucrat, on the other hand , is a rare occurrence thus evoking greater sympathy?
3.All along, we are being told that that the armed forces are supposed to be at par with other services when it comes to fixing pay and allowances. This is the standard argument forwarded ,for denying a separate pay commission for the Armed Forces. By the same logic, the death benefits for other services should be the same as those applicable to the armed forces. The reason for these double standards is therefore hard to fathom. Irrespective of the reasons or sentiments behind such random acts of kindness, it must be understood that it undermines the supreme sacrifice made by others, and is liable to affect the morale of their comrades.
4.It is time that the government decided once and for all whether the armed forces are at par with other central services or not, and act responsibly rather than arbitrarily.
XXXXXXsdXXXXXXX
Dear Sir,
Navdeep sir pl tell me about our Army Notification when it comes. Where I can see.
Vikas
Dear Sir
Pl tell me about Army notification.
I feel we have more tiers in our army hierarchy.Though, I donot know about other leading armed forces of other developed countries. we always find it difficult to adjust all designations in pay scales that is true for some other departments also.If possible abolition of Second Lietinet,Lt colonel,Major Gen,Lt Gen.
(4 Ranks/Designations)can be considerde as done/suggestedin case of DIG.There Can't/Should not be any Question of any comromise on Honour/Finacial benefits provided to armed Force personels Serviving OR Retired Systems related to financial benefits & Honour/Respect enjoyed by Armed Force Personels be strentened.There should any attempt to degrade Defence force Personels in comparison to civilion officials
We should support the cause of Valiant soldiers and Officers at front protecting the country.Why "Equal Pay for Equal Work", in case of Inter service Organisations like MES, BRO, DRDO etc.,is not acceptable to us. The shortage of Officers at all levels should make us to STOP EREs of Various Arms and services like Engineers, EME, ASC, AMC, ADC, Signals,Provost, Pioneers etc these Organisations
Does any one have an idea as to the procedures followed for notification? Is it a normal practice that Armed Forces notification is not issued together with Civil Central Govt
notification. Does the delayed notification mean work in progress to resolve the anomolies projected?
If any one can throw some light on these issues
nothing moves in the govt so fast so dont expect changes so fast. lt cols status quo in 6CPC remains as it is till now. dont expect changes to take place so fast. The civil govt dept dont work on sundays and holidays like army who works 24 hrs round the clock and complete week without break and still dosent gets its dues.
The correct equation should have been this
I.Lt (0) /JTS (0)
II. Capt (2)/STS (4)
III. Maj (6) / JAG (9)
IV. Lt Col (13) / NFSG (13)
V. Col (20) / DIG (14)
VI. Brig (28) /
Govt should immediately ammend and make this changes in the defence notification to do justification with Armed foces. Its is so simple and clear. I hope all lt cols will be satisfied with this proposal.
Let us not let the matter settle down till the time Lt Cols who are the backbone of this army get their rightful due. Remember all that media hype about a disgruntled force and how people are leaving in droves? Army's case was built around the rank of Lt Col and now they are the ones who have got the most raw deal. Are our Generals listening? Pl do and react otherwise we will have nothing but contempt left for you.
enough is enough. lt cols should not accept this injustice.
DEAR FRIENDS...
STOPING ERE WAS AND IS NEVER A SOLUTION...
ON ONE HAND 6TH CPC IS SAYING LATERAL MOVE OF SOLDIERS...SO THAT ARMY REDUCES THE WASTAGE RATE OF TRAINED SOLDIERS..
U R ADVOCATING STOP ERE...
FOR UR KIND INFORMATION THE MAIN REASON FOR GETTING CIVILIANS IN DEFENCE ALLIED SERVICES LIKE MES..ETC WAS ECONOMICAL..AS THE GOVT DOSENT HAVE THE SAME LIABILITY TOWARDS THEM AS IT IS FOR SOLDIERS..LIKE EXPENDITURE ON COMBAT TRAINING.ETC.
UR SUGGESTION LACKS VISION..
IT WAS A COAS WHO ONCE SAID THAT ARMY OFFICERS ARE NOT BABUS AND WITHDREW THEN FOR M.O.D. NOW C THE STATE.. U RUN AROUND THOSE CSO'S AND IAS OFFICERS TO GET UR FILE MOVING..
WE WITHDREW FROM BSF..SEE U R STAGNATED IN UR OWN DEPT AND IPS R COMING THEIR AT HIGHER RANKS..
WE WITHDREW FROM NSG..THEY R THEIR...
SO PLEASE DONT CUT UR OWN WINGS..
WE ALLOWED OTHERS TO WEAR COMBATS....C TODAY THEY SAY THEY CAN DO THE JOB BETTER THAN U ...AND THEY ALSO CLAIM TO BE SOLDIERS..
I STILL REMEMBER ONE GEN HAD SAID..AT MHOW.ARMY SHOULD ACT AS BIG BROTHERS TO CPMF/CPOS..C THE YOUNGER BROTHERS R HAVING U .. I READ ON THIS BLOG ONLY THAT SOMEONE WROTE THEY CAN HANDLE SITUATION BETTER
AND THE WORST IS THE COMMON DOESNOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.. HE ONLY UNDERSTANDS COMBAT DRESS..FOR UR KIND INFORMATION DO U KNOW CRPF ,CISF AND BSF ARE INCLUDED IN THE DEFINATION OF SOLDIERS..SO NOW WHEN U APPLY FOR A SEAT IN ENGRING COLLEGE FOR UR SON...THEY R ALSO THEIR...NOTHING AGAINST THEM BUT THE FACT IS GOVT HAS NOT INCR THE RESERVED SEATS FOR SOLDIERS...SAME IS APPLICABLE FOR LAND/PLOT SCHEMES ETC...SO WAKE UP..
Friends Our experience in ERE is shattering on the Professionalism of Army. We should demand the best pay for the fighting force. The 'Exposure' in ERE is disastorous to the Individual and the Armed forces as well. Lateral entry into CPOs is heartening but not EREs.
@ Kartikey
Dear Kartikey
please talk to any civil services officers, he will tell you the truth- only 20 % of the total cadre post are at NFSG level. That too they are not time scale like Lt Col. So many Civil Services are getting NFSG after 20 years. It all depends upon your cadre and your batch size. Talk to any Group A Civil Services officer working ion Defence Ministry, he will tell you the facts for your information.
Will you consider following questions :-
1 As rightly said by anonymous, when there are only 4 grade in civil services in PB-4 : NFSG, DIG, SAG and HAG. why you want to create anomaly by having five army rank in PB-4 viz Lt Col, Col, Brig, Maj Gen and Lt Gen. There is no injustice to army- 4 in PB-4 on civil side and 4 on army side.
2. when there are only three grade in civil services in PB-3 viz JTS, STS & JAG , why you want you have Lt , Capt, Maj and Lt Col. And then say our Maj is JAG grade at just 6 years of service. At six years. and a capt with just two years service is equal to STS. By having more ranks , you can't fix status to your advantage. The status equation is to be fixed by govt only.
3. The problem has been created due to unnecessary no. of ranks in Army. Have equal no. of ranks as that of civil services , and you will never have problem either of status or of pay. The problem is self created and people responsible do not not want to solve the problem. Is capt performing any different work than a Lt or Maj performing any different work than a capt ?
I think you dont know any thing about the functioning of defence forces, and its not some bodys govt, its our govt and we are making the govt and we have made ranks due to functional requirement that is to win a war and save people like you from external aggression and internal security as well.Therefore there should be more number of ranks may be 4,5,6 in PB4 for ARMY as compared with civil services. war is not IAS maths 4=4. Try to understand and give your dues to lt cols of army who have been really degraded by 6CPC.
The so called injustice was never there atleast not after fourth pay commission. Lt cols have traditionally been equated with a JAG. 6CPC has made the parity more aparent that is why, so much hue and cry. Posts held by army officers in ministries were also in line with the parity existing. The problem started with 5CPC when officers of central engineering services were given functional scale of director at SE level and JAG scale was made NFSG and was given to EEs ( 30% of cadre).So by this two scales were created at the level of EE ie STS & JAG. Little concideration will show that 6CPC has not touched/disturbed the existing parity,ofcourse made it confusion free. There is no change in status viz a viz civil servants since 4CPC,yes,there was a change in status of army officers viz a viz engineering cadres wef 5CPC.
If Economy is concern why not carry out to logigal end?. Younger brothers lot has improved after the 'clipping of wings'. Lot of 'Step-brothers' in MES, BRO and DRDO has not improved. The privileges conferred on the "Big Brother" beliitles even the Britsh Raj ICS & devoid of Natural Justice, Equal pay for Equal Work and Fundamental Rights guaranteed by the Costituition.Is there any Hope for Introspection of Big brother for improving lot of Step brother of MES, DRDO, BRO etc.,?.
We r a socialist secular democracy and not a dictatorship/autocracy/monarchy/British colony/theocratic state and as such nothing can b more unpatriotic then to make references to /compare with countries like Pakistan/B'desh etc. Secondly comparables should only b compared.For some inexplicable reason rank pay is being taken for pay fixation despite MSP in lieu of rank pay. Is not MSP akin to rank pay i.e. to compensate for peculiar service conditions of mil pers? All ranks of service offrs i/c Lt Col continue to draw higher salary(15-35%) than their civ counterparts thanks to MSP.
@ Anonymous August 31, 2008 12:59 AM
dear
As suggested by you; is having 6 rank in PB-4 really the solution. What you want - that even major should be put in PB-4. Then you will say our major is equivalent to NFSG, Lt Col equal to DIG, Col equal to SAG (Joint Secretary), Brig equal to HAG (Additional Secretary), Maj Gen equal to Secretary, Lt Gen equal to Cabinet Secretary, Army Cdr equal to Defence Minister, Chiefs equal to PM, Field marshal equal to President of India. I hope you understood the meaninglessness of your idea.
Hi all .. PSe ponder *The following verse has been composed by a fourth generation, 24-year old
career officer in the Indian Armed Forces, spurred by the report of the Sixth Pay Commission and an insensitive article written by a 'respectable' ; denizen of the country in a national daily on the armed forces and the pertinence of the Sixth Pay Commission therein. This free-flowing verse has
not been edited; it's to ensure that the originality of the angst is maintained. After all, when you are in pain, the language of ex-pression is the last thing in your mind*
How you play with us, did you ever see?
At Seven, I had decided what I wanted to be;
I would serve you to the end,
All these boundaries I would defend.
Now you make me look like a fool,
When at Seventeen and just out of school;
Went to the place where they made "men out of boys"
Lived a tough life …sacrificed a few joys…
In those days, I would see my 'civilian' friends,
Living a life with the fashion trends;
Enjoying their so called "College Days"
While I sweated and bled in the sun and haze…
But I never thought twice about what where or why
All I knew was when the time came, I'd be ready to do or die.
At 21 and with my commission in hand,
Under the glory of the parade and the band,
I took the oath to protect you over land, air or sea,
And make the supreme sacrifice when the need came to be.
I stood there with a sense of recognition,
But on that day I never had the premonition,
that when the time came to live me my due,
You'd just say," What is so great that you do?do not;
Long back you promised a well to do life;
And when I'm away, take care of my wife.
You came and saw the hardships I live through,
And I saw you make a notefor two,
And I hoped you would realise the worth of me;
but now I know you'll never be able to see,
Because you only see the glorified life of mine,
Did you see the place where death looms all the time?
Did you meet the man standing guard in the snow?
The name of his newborn he does not know.
Did you meet the man whose father breathed his last?
While the sailor patrolled our seas so vast?
You still know I'll not be the one to raise my voice
I will stand tall and protect you in Punjab Himachal and Thois.
But that's =ust me you have in the sun and rain,
For now at Twenty Four, you make me think again;
About the decision I made, Seven years back;
Should I have chosen another life, some other track?
Will I tell my son to follow my lead?
Will I tell my son, you'll get all that you need?
This is the country you will serve
This country will give you all that you deserve?
I heard you tell the world "India is shining"
I told my men, that's a reason for us to be smiling
This is the India you and I will defend!
But tell me how long will you be able to pretend?
You go on promise all that you may,
But it's the souls of your own m=n you betray.
Did you read how some of our eminent citizens
Write about me and ridicule my very existence?
I ask you to please come and see what I do,
Come and have a look at what I go through
Live my life just for a day
I will still risk my life without a sigh
To keep your flag flying high
but today I ask myself a question or two…
Oh India…. Why do I still serve you?
Agonizing response to the pay commission's apathy towards the armed forces.
THE ECONOMICS TIMES:-
NEW DELHI : Even as the government notified the Sixth Central Pay Commission report benefiting 50-lakh government servants, Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta has voiced the "demoralisation" among the middle-rung officers to Defence Minister A K Antony over "an anomaly" in their new pay scales.
Mehta met Antony on Friday evening to brief him on his recent visit to Japan and Korea where he took up the issue of "Lt Colonels and their equivalents in Navy and IAF being placed in Pay Band-3, lowering the extant of parities, while their civilian and paramilitary counterparts were raised to Pay Band-4," top Navy sources told media on Saturday.
"The Navy chief discussed the matter with the Defence Minister in his late evening meeting on Friday and the Ministry is now seized of the matter," sources said.
The Ministry is likely "to take up the matter" at the highest level in the government "to address the grievances" of the armed forces, even though the CPC had already been notified late on Friday night, sources added.
The "anomaly" was first articulated by Air chief Marshal Fali Homi Major in a letter to the Defence Minister on August 25, while acting as Chairman of Chief of Staff Committee as incumbent Mehta was in Japan and South Korea.
Major had said it was "unfortunate" that the Finance Ministry had introduced yet another anomaly, "lowering the extant parities of officer of the Armed Forces of the rank of Lt Colonels (and equivalent) by retaining them in the Pay Band-3, while raising similarly placed civilian and paramilitary officer to Pay Band-4."
Last heard that armed forces pay commission cell has been congratulating themselves - for having rolled back JS scale to IAS by two years. What pity instead of concentrating on how to tackle the Lt col anamoly.
India is a democracy and employment under the state including defence services is absolutely voluntary. Civil society in general has tremendous amount of respect for our armed forces. But Govts r not run on emotions.Scales have to b laid keeping in view the resources available, prevailing parities etc. Military just like other institutions is but an instrument of State not the State itself. Not fair to denigrate the role of others in nation building and resort to emotional bargaining(if not blackmail). The earlier all concerned understand this the better. An introspection will not b out of place to ponder over the so called grievances of defence pers and alleged discrimination by the bureaucrats.
Authentic sources tell that pay commission cell was not even aware that there is an anomaly till air chief brought it out in open. we should have an open session with these guys. anyway latest news is that defence minister is very much in picture about lt col anomaly and we should have a response soon. that's why defence gazette is not out yet.
Armed forces are the glue which are holding the nation together. The last post of this great nation. Secular, honest (vast part), no caste/creed - our motto one nation. civil services guys would find it hard to digest.
If true it is highly unbecoming of IAF and Navy chiefs to keep on hammering a point based on skewed interpretations of extant parities Just because they have direct access to the political executive.Has the head of any other institution/service seen/heard of campaigning so vigorously that too on unsound logic?
All lt cols will get justice as the matter has been sounded to the defence minister. The civil administration babus have been exploiting soldiers right from the day India got its independance to prove their superiority over defence and to have better control over army, the civil babus have exploited soldier to a very large extent. Now the time has come to break this bondage and to get right status for lt cols who have been delebrately left out by 6CPC.
@ Anonymous August 31, 2008 1:11 PM
1) The fact that you posted the comment as Anonymous Proves the fact you are a Gutless Man/Woman.
2) If You Do Not the Facts and Logic then You should Not Open your Trap in a Public Forum and make Mockery of Yourself.
3)You do not have a Standing of even the lowest strata(Who-ever you might be) to make a Comment on Service Chiefs.
Other services were a part of pay commission itself. They have already manipulated it to their benefit. They need not go to any body to resolve their grievences.ARMED FORCES were the only one with no representation.U all don't have to be anonymous.
As a pensioner I add my voice to the cacophony about the injustice to Lt Cols.If the SCPC's recommendations for past pensioners are accepted, it is only Majors and Lt Cols that are likely to get cheated of getting more increase being added to their existing pension, as long as the serving Majors and Lt Cols are in PB 3. 50% of the minimum of their pay band +grade pay is less than the revised pension shown in Annex5.1.1, while for all other ranks it is higher.The latter will get their revised pensions shown in the table 5.1.1 stepped up to 50% of minimum of pay band +grade pay getting a huge increase eg an Army commander is likely to get 40000 basic pension as against the existing about 17000 or so.
Previously a Lt Col was drawing more pay than a Civilian officer in the S-24 Pay Scale and equal to S-25. In fact the at the outer end of pay scale a Lt Col drew slightly greater than even S-25 scale. Now both S-24 and S-25 will draw a substantially higher salary even after offsetting the new benefit of MSP.
Pay Panel believes in 'Zor ka jhatka, dheere se lagaao'. They first issue press release indicating a special improvement of pay exclusively for defence and then one gets to read the fine print much later. By that time all headlines are already published based on the press release. Long live Indian bureaucracy. Even the chiefs did not get the wind of this before the notification. That speaks of the decision making process.
It is hightime somebody brainy and analytically inclined wrote a series or articles on the anomalies of the 6 Th CPC as also expressed the depth of dissatisfaction we in uniform feel about the injustise met out to us. Let us presently hold our pen to their head and say : Hay this is not just the pen that you see, but there is a gun behind this pen; and thankfully we know how to use it. Or, do you want another Ayun / Yahya / Zia / Mushrraf in your seat. Don't we feel ashamed that we haven't done it already. Strong stuff ! Are we men enough to do it ?
Gentlemen, without offending the sensibilities of any section of the blogger, It is better to look at things objectively. The facts to be kept in mind before getting agitated are:
1. The service personnel live and die in the fool's paradise, thinking that they are the real saviors of this nation. For this belief the officers in the operational units sacrifice their families & children, motivate/emotionally blackmail soldiers to do the same and embrace death. The real fact on the real worth of the soldiers in the eyes of government comes out very often in public discourses & especially during pay commissions, but these are ignored after few days and the fools continue to drink and die in their paradise.
2. The senior service officers are either not bothered about subordinates or too helpless/weak (May be suffering from loss of memory/worth) How can they forget the priority in the oath taken wherein, the interests of subordinates come above their own interests?
3. The senior fools in the paradise continue to break the morale & spoil the family lives of the subordinates by rejecting their applications for release, by not providing them with options to look after their ailing parents/ wife even for a limited period of couple of years. This is done because if the personnel leave service, the nation will go down the drain (The real reason being the the seniors cannot digest that these personnel will get a better quality of life in the civil world).A large number of officers knocking at the doors of High Courts/Supreme Courts are testimony to this foolish state of affairs.
4. The reality is that it is a vicious cycle of exploitation of the sentimental/emotional fools who are detached from the real harsh facts of this country.There is no comparison of the pays with the work. Its just 'might is right'. Fools wine and die in their paradise and the smart ones loot the spoils. Otherwise, there wouldnt have been this hue and cry every now and then. Either the government doesnt understand the worth of the soldiers or if they understand then with the kind of responses from the bloggers and the facts brought out, in the government's scheme of things soldiers are expendable and worthless.
Service personnel look with disdain at the civilian government servants, considering them as inefficient, corrupt and worthless. They think that if not for the defence services, the country will go to ....
Look at the facts on the ground...they are having last laugh while the fools wine/whine and die in their make believe world....A Fools' paradise...The irony is that the bloggers response and the facts on ground suggest that it hasnt remained the fools' paradise it was...it has become the fools' pigsty.
its all over for lt cols. let them wait for 7CPC. they can prepare themselves till that time and fight out then. now its too late. its like olompics which comes after 4 years but this one u got to multiply by factor of 2 that is after 8 years. So good luck all lt cols start preparing now.
@a fool
Sometimes I wonder what on earth were we fighting the past wars for. FOOL taunts us as if they don't require us, they can handle it all by themselves. It's particularly hard to be polite to someone who regards the Armed Forces as some kind of a racket. It's not that FOOL doesn't see our point of it, he doesn't want to see our point of it. Do guys like him deserve our devotion and sacrifice? Gentlemen, FOOL has put his foot in his own mouth and it's a pretty sight!
I fail to understand this obsession for paring Lt Col & equiv with NFSG(s-24 fifth pay comm). In fact applying the logic of pay drawn at min of scale + rank Pay, Lt Cols were drawing more than civ in scale S-28 14300-22400 now placed in PB4 with a grade pay of Rs.10000 equal to that for SAG/Maj Gen. Grade pay of 10000 must be sought for Lt Cols. Whatever happens to Cols/ Brigs &equiv. Comments?
be in present. the fact remains that there is lot of gap/ diference between the pay of lt cols and their one rank up which needs to be resolved by increasing the pay of lt cols.
Well Anony,
The comparison of Lt Col, based on the end of scale, can only be with the closest scale of 15100-18300 and not with 14300-22400 which is a scale higher than 15100-18300. Dig into your history and you'll find that historically, Lt Cols have been equated with NFSG. Rank Pay was carved out of Basic by the 4th CPC.
Dear anony,
Wait for the first board which generally happens within three to four years after becoming a Lt Col at thirteen years of service, earn your promotion,status and pay of a colonel. Should you miss the board, wait for another three years to become time scale col and take the pay of a colonel.And the position which is existing for atleast twenty years( after 4th CPC)has only been recommended by 6th CPC. The reaction seems to be little exagagerated and little too late
VRS of a 1990-batch Rajasthan cadre IAS Officer, Jagdish Chandra, who had made a complete "turnaround" at Rajasthan Saras Dairy, Jaipur Development Authority and Transport Department, has been cleared on Thursday evening by the Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje. Chandra, who was due to retire in April, 2010, leaves his job to fulfill his old media passion, by joining as CEO, for ETV assignment for Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, on the eve of Assembly and Lok Sabha polls. His appointment is being considered as important in the Rajasthan bureaucratic and political circles.
can we have the same for the army please?
THE FAUJI WERE MADE HAPPY BY 4TH PAY COMMISSION BY REDUCING THEIR BASIC PAY AGAINST THE RANK PAY WHICH THEY GAVE SAYING LOOK U HAVE GOT SOMETHING EXTRA...
BUT THIS TIME...NO GAMES...LET THE GOVT DECIDE ONCE AND FOR ALL..WHETHER THEY WANT MOTIVATED AND UPRIGHT ARMED FORCES...
WHICH IS THE ONLY ORGANISATION WHICH INSPITE OF ALL ODDS HAS DELIVERED RESULTS...
to enjoy or to be happy u have to be a politician/religious guru.dont loose your temper wth false ego of being a fauji.they all blackmail u emotionally
i am fed up with this buerocratic system where justice is denied to the people and soldiers working at ground level. just see how lt cols of army are suferring being beyrayed by every one. and they are the ones who are running the show in the army along with their men. feel very sorry that they have been left out by SCPC.
grade pay is ithink the answer to the MSP for the IAS.U have been granted MSP but no arrears, if grade pay is new then why arrears on grade pay and not on MSP
Grade pay- 40% of the gighest pay was applied to civil scales but Grade pay for defence has been fixed as per ranks(I Suppose) and thats why so many anomalies
is there any logic for fixing grade pay as per the highest of a prerevised scale.Going by this the widest scale will be benifitted the most
@Navdeep/Maj Navdeep Singh/Capt Navdeep Singh
Dear Sir,
I believe there is a law that any employee of central govt can compete for higher category. Till now to negate this armed forces pay was kept a bit higher. Now as it seems we are the lowest in the respective category, is there any way we can try for IAS exam & if selected can we join the civil services with the same seniority.
warm regards
Prakash
its better to join civil services. can lt cols jump from their grade to a higher grade in civil services. if so then what is the channel and procedure ??
are we not trying to fool ourselves by again thinking that the anamoly committie will put
things right..anamoly is for those who could not express themselves.. ( due to less size
of their workers or importance of the anamoly)..the defence forces had left no stone
unturned in letting the environment know of all the problems and lowering of the stature of
the ranks..
all the effort of the service chiefs going to the defence minister and all the outcry fell
into deaf ears.. ..
anamoly is when the people do not understand the relevance of a particular thing..
do anyone has any doubts that the enpowerment committee where not clear as what defence
forces where asking for...
so it is amply clear that defence forces officers, like always, have been lowered in
stature with proper planning..... and we like the same old time keep hoping that something
will be done by these babus...(like the frog in a well)
sorry.... if something has to be done , it has to be done by us because the babus are not
going to do anything for us ...
so my dear friend... time for us to lve for a better avenue.. may be the forces will become
something for the mediocre.. so no point in serving among the mediocres.. and retiring as a
Lt Col/ time scale Col ..
i can't see a better way.. . can you ??? ( sorry the indian army is not going to do
anything bold except again going to another politician and again keep crying how the system
( read babus) is so unfare)
Before any comment is passed , let us read the sixth pay commission report, page 73 and 74 gives the so called equivalance between civil services and defence forces. By this equivalence lt col is equated with JAG since 3 rd pay commission . The moot point is did the services correct this anamoly of the SPC at any point by raising this matter?
Further the general talk of equivalence is between infantry and IPS but there are other allied services in the armed forces technical and non technical, these cannot be compared to IPS , rather comparison should be with the technical services. Any comments anybody?
a techi officer who has done his engg degree and joined the armed forces and serving in the army in the rank of lt col is much more superior to SE who have been kept in PB4 where as the Engg graduates lt col are still left out in PB3. a gross injustice to lt cols and should be rectified at the earliest.
Forces must understand that they are one of the orgnaisation under the govt. like any other civil organisation/ cadres like IAS, police, railways, engineering services, space, scientists, teachers. Govt. takes decision after considering all the pros and cons, which are in the overall best functioning of the govt. and society. Armed forces must stop thinking that they are superior to civil services or any other organisation/ cadre.It is for govt. to decide how much bread it needs (development- civil services- doctors, engineers, IAS, IPS, industires,railways) or bullet (forces to secure the country ). Govt has to keep every thing in balance. It can neither igonre civil services not it can ignore armed forces. Armed forces are fulfilling the needs of a democratic state, as other civil organisations/ Cadres/institutions are performing. The primacy demanded by armed forces in every walk of life is not at all justified. This will only alienate armed forces further from the civil society, whom it is meant to serve. This is evident from the numerous clashes which are reported every now and then at the railway stations, around cantts, at new year parties between the armed froces and civil society.
Lt Col post is a very junior rank- sixth in the hierarchy of armed forces - General , Lt Gen, Maj Gen, Brig, Col. Don't decome laughting stock of the civilized society and all civil services by demanding PB-4 for Lt Col. People may not express it but , armed forces have already got enough adverse publicity in the media after pay commission. The time has come for the forces for initiating internal reforms and shed all the flab - by permitting all col/ brig and above ranks to want to quit with in 30 days of applying for PMR, so that all Lt Col may become Col and get higher pay as well as status in time.
Dear annony
why a simple thing u cant understand is that , it is the status of Lt Col is lowered as compared to his counterparts in para military and civil , So all this issue is of STATUS and not pb3 -pb4 (incidently this comes in between ).u must understand the problem and then open ur hole.should u not fight for ur ur status if it is ignored
The defence notification signed by Mr Ajay Tirkey JS MOD on 30 Aug 2008 is available at Service HQs. Worst fears have come true so far as Lt Col go. Also one might have to kiss sahayaks a good bye.
ALL ABOUT QUITTING......
Quitting the services: In Subodh Khare’s words
August 31, 2008 in Human Resources, Military, Navy by Pragmatic | 9 comments
Dear friends,
I left a comment on Pragmatic Euphony for the first time a couple of days back and I did not really know that so many people are interested in knowing the details of my case. It is indeed saddening to know that so many people are unhappy in forces and would like to quit.
Without putting any of my “biased” views, I shall only state the bare facts about my case.
I am a Surgeon Commander from Indian Navy and did my MBBS and MD from the AFMC. The Medical service is common for all the three forces and I have served for two years on INS Vikrant as PMO and at Goa for four and a half years where the largest naval air base is situated. Thus I have a very good idea about the air force and pilots.
I had a bond of seven years after finishing my MD in 1993. It all triggered with a spate of four postings in two years for no rhyme and reason and the navy refusing to give me annual leave for my wife’s complicated delivery. My wife is a doctor who was getting Rs 2500/- as Honorarium in a Naval family clinic. So I brought the meagre pay to the notice of FOC-in-C Admiral Arun Prakash, who did not bother to do anything. I then decided that enough is enough.
Thus I put up my papers in 2002 for the first time from Goa. They were returned from the Command (Mumbai). First Illegal thing– Command has no power to commission an officer neither they can take a decision for the release. So promptly I put up second time and as expected they were turned down at the area level(FOGA-Flag Officer Goa Area). Second Illegal thing, damn.
So promptly I put up a statutory complaint. It was not answered for 11 months (whereas it is mandatory for them to reply it within nine months). Now I indulged in some plain speak with the CNS; verbatim as follows — My legitimate complaints are going nowhere and I may be forced to take legal recourse much against my wishes and principles. This letter was put on file and explanation was asked of the DGMS by the CNS. However as expected, the reply came in one month from the MOD that your grounds are not adequate and there is a shortage of medical officers in Armed forces.
The next month, I filed a writ petition in the Panaji bench of the Bombay high court — Writ petition WP 270/2002. I was threatened by a (Commander)deputy director who came to fight the case at Goa of dire consequences. My old claims were checked at CDA(Navy). I was under the watchful eyes of Naval Intelligence. They even tried to bait me.
In three months, the High court gave a decision in my favour. The leave to appeal was rejected summarily. However the armed forces chose to put up a special leave petition in Supreme Court.The SLP is supposed to be put up within 90 days but forces put it up after seven months and the delay was condoned in the Supreme court. They deleted all the relevant paras from the high court judgement book and presented on oath as authentic in SC. When ever the bench was unfavourable they got it changed ( e.g. Justice Sabharwal who had given judgement on Air Marshal Masand).
All possible illegal things were done .However as said in Upanishads– Satyamev Jayate. Unfortunately, the Supreme court after multiple adjournments came to a conclusion that they have no choice but to release me. Thus Justice Arijit Pasayat called the Solicitor General’s representative and told him that either you release him or we will have to pass an order. Thus before the next hearing, my release order was passed by the MOD and they put up an affidavit stating that the case has become infructuous. On this Honourable Justice Pasayat passed two line order as follows:
Since the government counsel has put on affidavit that the government has already passed the order of release for Surgeon commander S C KHARE the case has become infructuous. Thus we hereby dispose the case without passing the comment.
Unfortunately in my case, the honourable Supreme court has also helped the armed forces. As I have understood from my lawyer that they were suggested by the SC that if you don’t release him, we will have to pass an order and that will become a case law with wide ramifications as it will be binding on all the High courts.
My lawyer had asked me if was interested in pursuing the case to establish the position in law which may help others. I had already incurred Rs. 2.5 lakhs expenditure by 2005 and I was not interested in becoming a messiah. Thus, I declined with the following comment-
There is no point fu**ing a white elephant. Neither you will enjoy it nor the elephant will get pregnant.
Thus is my long and boring story which I tried to cut short. However I still love Armed forces and have excellent contacts and friends there. I don’t know whether I shall be of any help to anyone but I shall be happy to help anyone who needs it. I have been already consulted by about 60-70 officers on how to go about putting papers, filing a statutory complaint etc.
I still reiterate that getting out is much easier by paying money in MOD or pulling your strings. My path is long, arduous and difficult. Everybody turns away from you.The more loyal than king people become your enemy. I was even termed traitor. I was reminded of oath of allegiance etc.
Despite all this, I have no enemies as I fought my fight on principles. If you can release a few officers in my cadre it is my right to be released. This is enshrined in The constitution of India Article 14 and can not be abrogated even by constitutional amendment. That’s how the Honourable Supreme court advised the DGAFMS to release me.
Despite all this I say freedom is priceless. Any person I can be of help of any type may contact me on drsubodhkhare[at]yahoo.co.uk or leave a comment here with his email id.
My supreme court SLP was converted to a civil appeal(to delay the whole process) 9932/2003 but may not be available on the internet as the case was withdrawn by the government. However WP 270/2002 bombay high court (Panaji bench) may be available. [NB: It is available here(pdf)].
Please do remember. You don’t get justice in courts. What you get in courts is called justice. Just because someone has lost a case does not mean he is lying. It may be just that he could not gather enough proof to prove the truth.
Warm Regards
Subodh
Half of Bihar is submerged and every politician is shouting to hand over the resque operation to Army.All this is the result of perpetual plundering by the EEs &
SEs who are fighting for supermacy over Army.LET THESE BA****** GO THERE AND DO THE NEEDFUL.Is the annonymous SE from MES LISTENING.What the fu*** Army has to do with flood,fire or a child in a ditch.
Dear Anony,
Phir Din Mein Daru Pee Lee Tune
Guest Post: SCPC - A litany of losses
September 1, 2008 in Civil-Military relations, Human Resources, Military, Paramilitary forces, Politics by Pragmatic | No comments
[BeeCee, who had penned a few guest posts earlier (here, here, here and here), is back with his latest insight into the final results achieved after the SCPC recommendations have been notified. As always, he provides, from his vast repertoire of experience with the earlier pay commissions, some gems on institutionalised thinking of the services.]
Nothing so illustrates the intellectual and moral deficit that is spreading in the Services as the proposal to enhance pay of ‘Lt Gens who missed promotion to Army Cdrs……’ at the expense of key issues like Lt Col’s pay, recognition of training period etc. An irrelevant proposal that may benefit one or two, at the expense of those that benefit all. When someone sent me this initially, I thought it was to have a laugh at the expense of the Services. Looks like I am more out of touch than I thought.
My information is only from media, mails and blogs and I am willing to be corrected, but can somebody tell me if the following is wrong:
Service officers would be the only category of Government of India officers who start, reach full pension (and majority of them retire) in the same pay-band (PB-3) they started at – There is more value addition in a savings bank a/c over 20 years. So much for what the military gives in return to its officers. Anybody still of the view that officers need to be held back for what the service invests on them.
The commanding officer (DIG) of a Coast Guard Patrol Vessel (comparable to a ship commanded by a Lt Cdr or utmost, a Commander in the Navy) will be paid higher, and rank above the Commanding Officer (Capt) of an Aircraft Carrier.- True to tradition, this appears to be as per the demand from Service HQs.
All officers below Army Commander/equivalent(not forgetting those who missed promotion to Army Commanders), except Major Generals have got a relative reduction in pay/status.
‘Captains’ will now be called ‘Majors’ and Majors will be called ‘Lt Cols’ (in fact with less relative pay than what a Major got earlier). What about the pensions of those who actually earned the pension of erstwhile Major and Lt Col. Will they get the pension due to them or what would be due to the current lot? What compensation is being made for them by AVS/ Bagga/ service HQs or the CPC?
Pensions: Hitherto the average Service officer was given an eight year weightage over his civilian counterpart for pension to partially make up for the compulsory early superannuation. Now the Service officer has to serve one year more (Training Period) than his counterpart to get full pension. More importantly, because of the way the pay has been structured, his pension will be substantially lower than that of his counterparts. But early superannuation remains.
Progression to NFSG (in 14th year) through ACP, unless found unsuitable, has been a condition of service for officers from 1984/ 1986. Removal of this for those already in service can be legally challenged by those already in service.
The upward revision of CPC recommendations by the Cabinet was done to meet the demands of other civil services. What the services got, other than for “Lt Generals…” and MSP of the men, are incidental.
To check out the direction in which the Services have moved from the IV CPC onwards, forget Organised Group A Services, merely compare with the CPOs. Just prior to the IV CPC, the Major (Select Grade) drew pay similar to a Commandant (SG)/ AIG (same pay, different appointments). Now the ‘Major’ draws a Captains pay, the Commandant that of a Colonel and the AIG, that of a Brigadier.
This is the outcome of four much vaunted joint proposals by pay and personnel ‘experts’ of the Services. We must be thankful that we didn’t have one of these ‘experts’ in the CPC itself, somewhat akin to having foxes to watch over chickens because they have more experience in the hen-house.
The CPC dialogue is not about monetisation of the armed forces or any great reform required. It is about putting your money where some of our stalwarts usually put their foot in. At the end of the day every employer pays the employee what is deemed as his worth to the organisation, and the employee measures his self-worth by it.
It is also about recognition of a service rendered and of expectations for the future. It is, in fact, a clear statement of intent that no more is expected from those paid less.
As for the proponents of our ‘we are special’ approach to CPCs and AVS like solutions, let me borrow a phrase from Barrack Obama, who put it so pithily,
…it is not that they want lower pay and status for the officers, it is that they just don’t get it.
HEY ANNO,
Your creed is an obnoxious weed-
Nothing absolutely nothing works on it.Only way to get rid is to uproot it and burn it.Trust me, I am writing it in a sober state.
Hi anony,
Chalo Achha Hai Paanch Baje Tak Utar Gayi (As per your own admission)
Gentlemen, the defence notification is finally on the net. We all(in uniform) have been cheated. Long live our Top Brass (or should i say, future Governors and Ambassadors). Now, lump it.
i guess you serving guys just have to re-train ourselves and work as civil guys do!!( i was smart enough to take pre-mature retirement!)
here are a few tips..
just push files around...let subordinate staff do pretty much as they like...make a bit of side money....pack up a 5pm...don't let your seniors bully you into doing something thing stupid, like putting your life in jeopardy...stop saluting the civil and political shits...just refuse non family stations for more than one tenure...
in short live life like the ias/ips.why not? they equating us below these guys arn't they? don't waste your time fighting the system...just join the gang.why do we keep tom tomming that we are hugely suprior to the other guys, lets get to their level and live a life. forget all the crap doled out about duty and country...why should you be the only ones concerned?...when no one is concerned about you?
and for god's sake stop begging...and learn to DEMAND!! how do you demand the best out of your juniors? i assure you its far easier to demand your rights form your superiors...just try it...it might get you guys some respect!!
hi another bad news for defence people is that msp is not included in calculation of hra (conveniently removed) although it was recommended in the pay commission report
wg cdr v goyal
i guess you serving guys just have to re-train yourselves and work as the civil guys do!!
(i was smart enough to take pre-mature retirement!)
here are a few tips..
just push files around...let subordinate staff do pretty much as they like...make a bit of side money....pack up a 5pm...don't let your seniors bully you into doing something thing stupid, like putting your life in jeopardy...stop saluting the civil and political shits...just refuse non family stations for more than one tenure...and whats the great hurry in carring out court-martials?...what are you proving by sending home generals ?...has tehelka effected any of the corrupt ias guys or the politicions?...they are supposed to be above us no?
in short live life like the ias/ips guys do. why not? they equating us below these guys arn't they? don't waste your time fighting the system...just join the gang. why do we keep tom tomming that we are hugely superior to the other guys, lets get to their level and live a life. forget all the crap doled out about duty and country...why should you be the only ones concerned?...when no one is concerned about you? see how wonderfully these guys are managing the CYG in pune .....a few days to go and nothing ready... actually we in pune were in a better shape before the work commenced...and they not even ashamed that the world is watching!....so what makes you guys so bothered about stupid things like time tables and the H hour?
and for god's sake stop begging...and learn to DEMAND!! how do you demand the best out of your juniors? i assure you its far easier to demand your rights form your superiors...just try it...it might get you guys some respect!!
Why are we accepting non payment of MSP arears from 1.1.2006.When arears of Grade Pay(which is also a "new componant')can be given from 1.1.06,there is absolutely NO reason for denying same for MSP.IT IS A CLEAR CASE OF DISCREMANATION & ANTI ARMED FORCES STANCE.Since it affects ALL serving personal this ANNOMALY must be corrected. If necessary ARMED FORCES HQ should collectively take legal recourse on behalf of all of us.This is a mischief being played by the IAS Babus.
Congratulations Major Navdeep Singh, you are doing a wonderful job on this blog , to open eyes and ears of out topp brass , and so also , hopefuly of the Baboos and Dhoti Kurtas .I wish an officer like you should have taken up the case of Armed forces with the Sixth CPC instead of the so Wise Persons , who get drunk by the sun set and do not even know what they are telking about
It is a pity that bright officers LIKE YOU are not allowed to REACH THE TOP
Congratulations Major Navdeep Singh, you are doing a wonderful job on this blog , to open eyes and ears of our top brass , and so also , hopefully of the Baboos and Dhoti Kurtas .I wish an officer like you should have taken up the case of Armed forces with the Sixth CPC instead of the so called Wise Persons , who get drunk by the sun set and do not even know what they are telking about in the office
It is a pity that bright officers LIKE YOU are not allowed to REACH THE TOP
good one but what about travel entitlement ie as per recommendation grade pay of 6600 and aboveand above is authorised ac1 in train but the notification doesnot seems to be saying so any one pls enlighten
1. As per notification from sources PBOR in the Army nave and air forces made equal, but not action found on ground as per QSA for QE Nov 2008. Pl enlight the case .
2. Som categories like Clk, Opr, mech are still in gp B since last two pay commissions and required to upgraded to Group A. Even Safaiwal trade who stands in gp E is also merged in group B in the 6th CPC which is contradictiory and leads to demorale the troops.
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