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Before I come to the main issue, a brief background.
So I laughed when I saw in the 6th CPC report that there was an ‘established relativity’ between a DIG of Police and a Brigadier.
There had been none, relativity that is. There was nothing common between a DIG and a Brig except the rank badges. More so since in the late 1950s when the MHA had upgraded the rank badges of IPS officers, in a meeting between senior functionaries of the MoD and them, MHA representatives had promised that though they had granted an Ashoka and three stars to a DIG, the rank badges would have no bearing on the actual status of a Brig. Clearly there could be no comparison since 100% of IPS officers attain the rank of DIG in 14 years of service including training whereas less than 7% make it to Brig in the defence services and that too in 28 years of service excluding training.
If the 6th CPC had talked of relativity, here is what the actual relativity was till the 6th CPC :
At the time of independence, according to Governor General of India’s notification No F/49/9/35-Public (G), a Colonel was placed on Serial No 38 for status, a DIG on Number 45 and a Lt Col on Number 47. Hence a DIG was 7 steps lower than a Colonel and 2 steps higher than a Lt Col. At the most recent stage of 5th CPC scales, the starting pay of a DIG (Rs 16,400) was sandwiched between a Lt Col (Rs 15,100) and a Col (Rs 17,100).
The 6th CPC and subsequently the CoS however equated a DIG with a Brig (both granted a Grade Pay of Rs 8900). The 6th CPC and elements in the MoF also emphasized that they had not disturbed any status equation and even earlier a DIG was considered equal to a Brig.
How wrong they were. A recent example was of Scheduled Banks in India who have an appointment known as the Chief Security Officer (CSO) in Senior Management Grade Scale -5 (SMGS-V) the requirement for which was that the applicant should be either a Colonel or a DIG.
After the 6th CPC, the same advertisement has been issued with the requirement that the applicant should be either a Brigadier or a DIG.
And they said that the 6th CPC has merely maintained the existing relativities. Below is proof as to how on the contrary existing and established relativities have been blatantly disturbed only after the 6th CPC :
Here is a pre-CPC (2006) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Colonel / DIG
Here is a post-CPC (2008) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Brigadier / DIG
Isn’t the slide visible to the naked eye ?
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Before I come to the main issue, a brief background.
So I laughed when I saw in the 6th CPC report that there was an ‘established relativity’ between a DIG of Police and a Brigadier.
There had been none, relativity that is. There was nothing common between a DIG and a Brig except the rank badges. More so since in the late 1950s when the MHA had upgraded the rank badges of IPS officers, in a meeting between senior functionaries of the MoD and them, MHA representatives had promised that though they had granted an Ashoka and three stars to a DIG, the rank badges would have no bearing on the actual status of a Brig. Clearly there could be no comparison since 100% of IPS officers attain the rank of DIG in 14 years of service including training whereas less than 7% make it to Brig in the defence services and that too in 28 years of service excluding training.
If the 6th CPC had talked of relativity, here is what the actual relativity was till the 6th CPC :
At the time of independence, according to Governor General of India’s notification No F/49/9/35-Public (G), a Colonel was placed on Serial No 38 for status, a DIG on Number 45 and a Lt Col on Number 47. Hence a DIG was 7 steps lower than a Colonel and 2 steps higher than a Lt Col. At the most recent stage of 5th CPC scales, the starting pay of a DIG (Rs 16,400) was sandwiched between a Lt Col (Rs 15,100) and a Col (Rs 17,100).
The 6th CPC and subsequently the CoS however equated a DIG with a Brig (both granted a Grade Pay of Rs 8900). The 6th CPC and elements in the MoF also emphasized that they had not disturbed any status equation and even earlier a DIG was considered equal to a Brig.
How wrong they were. A recent example was of Scheduled Banks in India who have an appointment known as the Chief Security Officer (CSO) in Senior Management Grade Scale -5 (SMGS-V) the requirement for which was that the applicant should be either a Colonel or a DIG.
After the 6th CPC, the same advertisement has been issued with the requirement that the applicant should be either a Brigadier or a DIG.
And they said that the 6th CPC has merely maintained the existing relativities. Below is proof as to how on the contrary existing and established relativities have been blatantly disturbed only after the 6th CPC :
Here is a pre-CPC (2006) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Colonel / DIG
Here is a post-CPC (2008) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Brigadier / DIG
Isn’t the slide visible to the naked eye ?
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16 comments:
Can we do anything about this except accepting what ever thrown at us?
RM had stated armed forces have not rejected 6cpc.
Do we have the option of rejecting the 6cpc? or can the Armed forces reject the 6cpc or even express anything about it in public?
It is not only extraneous factors but also the organisational factors contributed to this degradation.
Lets be firm in our demand of restoration of Grade Parity from capt to Brig rank. Infact the least we should press for is, upgradation of brig to Brig Gen rank and this should get equated with JS ( SAG scale) and civ equivalent. Maj Gen should be equal to Addl Secy and Lt Gen to Spl Secy.
As a matter of fact, in GoM review Cols should get GP of 8900 and Lt Cols should get 8700 and similarly majs and capts need to be stepped up. This is as important a demand as any other, otherwise we get marginalised for posterity and our future generations will pillory us forever for NOT doing ANYTHING to UNDO the DAMAGE inflicted by this NIGHTMARISH pay commission report !!
PS: How disgusting can it get ?
Did, I see someone commenting that we reject the 6 CPC if we have a choice? Sir, are you living in cookoo land?
Here everyday since the release of 6CPC report, we meet Brigs and Cols who find nothing wrong with the report and who have been 'oh_so_upset' with the delays in arrival of their arrears and the long faced Lt Cols.
Of course, in the last week or so, these tinpots (nay, Brass-Pots) have also started wiping their spectacles clean and with great deal of professed indignity- started questioning the report. As they now are getting to know that they too have been kicked in the B---S.
You got to give it to the IDSE guys who are putting them in some hot soup.
Let the future gens know how their shortsighted seniors fell for a few pieces of silver.
Is there anything that can actually be done other than lamenting about these issues..i feel its better that these things are not brought out in the limelight as it only increases the feeling of helplessness and anguish..does nothing better to soothe any nerves..maybe i was better off (mentally) being unaware of these issues than i am now!!
A naked I can see the 'TRUTH' for sure.However it is surprising that how a naked character of Netas and vulgarity of intention,of vulgar(mind) of 'Ba-booz',
can not see the 'NUDITY'of malicious and ill intended design of few in the implementation committee of 6CPC for Armed forces for the Nation to come to this state of affairs.
officers all
this was bound to happen
as we all can see
the real reason for this is how military (corps of engineer) treated officers from civil services IDSE (i think this applies to BRES also)
it was desired by their bosses that SE serve as CWE commanding Lt Cols as GE and then serve under him in HQ
how would it feel to you
i would like to add some equivalence accepted by army in MES
A officer of IDSE JTS is equivalent to captain
and
this I saw at chandigarh airport
an insepector of ITBP is treated as an officer by army and airforce (those in chandigarh flying to LEH may confirm this from IL manifest)
SO of Audit was also treated as an officer (dont tell they are not allowed in Mess)
GE of MES and Major are equivalent as per Engineer in Chief branch and BRO manual
I do not deny Lt Col equivalent to SE as was in past but how will and SE of MES or BRO feel to work under a Lt COl after working over him and viceversa
If AGE (JTS) is now suddenly equal to Lt where were all the officers sleeping when MES regulation printed by army said that AGE (JTS)is equivalent to Captain
now fighting for making JTS equal to Leutinant is useless when army itself let them down
I can suggest something more acceptable to army and civil services
Seniority in Civil Service in PB3 as well as army be determined by years of service without any consideration of RAnk till 18th year.
After 18th year seniority will be as per promotion In army beyond Brigadier and Civil service in gradepay of 8900
Grade pay for Civil Service be Granted in 4,5,4 years and by selection cum seniority
Grade/Rank in army can be granted in 2, 4,4,3, years to Infantry and Artillery and Armoured while to technical Graduates their antedate seniority be done away with so that they also have it either in 2,4,4,3 year or it can be 4,5,4 as in civil side
what is the latest on pb 4 for Lt Col? Ha-a-a-a-a-Ha. Is someone still expecting? Silly.
well what can u say anything....if the DEFENCE Chiefs are accepting it. I don't understand why don't they voice their say for the uniform which they have put on for last 35-40 yrs.
Others say and get it. we become good boy and get NOTHING
The following is a post at website www.whispersinthecorridors.net
"Raja
On the 6th CPC row
I would like to post one more article received from a friend of mine. The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.
This is one of the best article I have come across on the 6th CPC row.
Deserves a Standing Ovation......!!!!
We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says TR Ramaswami.
In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation. That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows. This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilities and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services. How much differential is there? Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit - the 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. - ie a differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are "visible" on the shoulders.
First some general aspects. Only the armed forces are a real profession - i.e. where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs, engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence. But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief - in any army - has risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army. In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation - first and possibly only exception in world military history - General K. Sunderji. Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services.
Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army's rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion! You can't fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him. Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries.
Even the meaning of the word "merit" is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list. Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process - each time a batch is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one. Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.
The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the 'mode rank' of his service. "Mode" is a statistical term - the value where the maximum number of variables fall. In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel's gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance. Further, it takes 16-18 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General. These aspects and others - like postings in non-family stations - must be addressed while fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank - Colonel General - and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief. If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces' scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage. Done? Even India 's corruption index will go down.
If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created. But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so in the IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals - one is doing Volume I and another Volume II! Further the civil services have such facilities as "compulsory wait" - basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don't want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled. Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.
Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so.
Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.
Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class - not the bureaucracy - which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments - Finance, Railways, Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways. Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS. Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33 of the Constitution. Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country's security is concerned. Recall 1962?
Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells (!), should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales.
The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.
I long to accomplish great and noble tasks, but it is my chief duty to accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble. The world is moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker - HELEN KELLER
Raj"
THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO "DOGS" IN EVERY RESPECT AND WAY. NOTHING CAN RESTORE SENSE AND ORDER EXCEPT A CATASTROPHIC CHANGE WHICH SHOULD HAVE THE STRENGTH TO ANNIHILATE THE "DEMONS"(NETAS+BABOOS) IN TOTALITY AND COMPLETENESS, MAY THAT CATASTROPHE COME SOON
AMEN
can a armed forces that cannot defend itself in the current scenario, hope to defend this country in the case of an external aggresssion? nobody from outside this org is going to help the armed forces- it will have to rely only on itself to fight its battle.Not the net's, not the media, and certainly not the ministry of defence. Are the armed forces going to let the beaurocracy get the better of it, as always, or isn't it high time that they are given a bloody nose, and told to remain in their boots?
all services people are fool to wait and watch. those who wnated have eaten the cake. even the teachers have got the due ONLY FAUJI's like fool are waiting for some alms. all fauji's should not send the acceptancea nd those who do not should be given higher PB balance fools who accept the 6PC should be given that only.U get what u want.
PB-4 demand in the bag?
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/12/pb-4-demand-in-bag.html
On the delay in resolving pay commission issues raised by the armed forces, Antony said an amicable solution was almost ready."It is almost there," he added.
http://news.in.msn.com/international/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1717898
An article by Lt Col A K Rai (retd) in Indian Defence Review
My father Daroga Prasad Rai, who was Chief Minister of Bihar in 1970, motivated and encouraged me to join Sainik School Tilaiya with a view to make me join Armed Forces as an officer.
He always spoke of the Indian Armed Forces with the highest regard. At that time I was only about nine years old. At that impressionable age I became highly motivated.
I do not deny that I was thrilled by the prospect of joining the most noble profession, where one gets a chance to make the supreme sacrifice for his country.
Accordingly I competed and joined Sainik School Tilaiya. But I did not want to leave any stone unturned in my ambition to become an Army Officer. When I came to know about Rashtriya Indian Military College, Dehradun (RIMC), which was considered to be the best, I competed and joined the RIMC in January 1973.
Even though my initial enthusiasm had not waned, by the time I reached 11th standard, with whatever understanding I had, I started enquiring about a career in the Armed Forces.
My seniors who were at the Indian Military Academy by then, fed me some comparisons. First, they showed me that all the Class-I Services officers (including IAS and IPS) started their career at a basic salary of Rs 700/- per month, whereas in the case of Armed Forces officers it was Rs 750/- per month. (I later came to know that this extra Rs 50/- was special disturbance allowance, which was merged with basic pay by the Third Pay Commission).
Second, they also showed me the orders where a Major was equated with an IAS Officer with not less than 12 years of service. The obvious conclusion, which will be drawn by any 16 or 17-year-old boy, would be that the Army as a career was almost equal to the IAS, and certainly better than the IPS or other Class-I central services.
Having convinced myself, I put in my best in the NDA exam, and ranked eighth in the final merit list. After successfully completing my training at NDA Khadakwasla and IMA, Dehradun, I was commissioned as Second Lieutenant in June 1981 in the 7th Battalion the Sikh Regiment, on my own choice i.e., after exactly 11 years of hard training and spartan living. But due to an injury, attributable to Military Service, I was placed in a permanent low medical category. Consequently, I was transferred to the Army Ordnance Corps in 1988 i.e., after seven years of regimental service in Infantry. On transfer I was posted to the Ordnance Depot, Shakurbasti, Delhi.
It was here I learnt that whatever I had been thinking about the career in the Indian Army was wrong.
In the Ordnance Depot, I discovered that the JCOs who are Gazetted Officers (I have seen the Gazette Notification of JCOs) are equated with non-gazetted civilian employees and that too of Class-III i.e., Group-C. The point has only been made to emphasise the arbitrariness and irrationality of orders regarding the relativity of ranks. And as the de facto equation stands today, there cannot be any service with worse career prospects than the Army except some Group-B services.
But is this the result of a “steep pyramidal hierarchy” as is often claimed? No.
Also read: Are our forces lower caste?
It is the result of a conscious effort by the bureaucracy to degrade the services ever since independence. To undo this, i.e., if the Government is sincere, the solution is to revert to the pre-A V Singh Committee implementation stage and reintroduce the rank of 2nd Lieutenant, and to offer one-rank one-pay scale in the standard pay scales as was applicable to all the Organised Central Group-A Civil Services ( erstwhile allied services).
Till recently, the Warrant of Precedence stated that a Major is equal to an IAS Officer with not less than 12 years of service and a Superintendent of Police with not less than 15 years of service.
The status of Army officers was further degraded as per the underlying thrust of the Sixth Pay Commission, at the behest of bureaucracy. Why are these facts not disseminated to the young aspirants to the Armed Forces? If bureaucrats and policemen are higher in rank and status, then why are Army officers debarred from taking the IAS and IPS exams? I do not think that anyone today, if he is aware of of these facts, would join the Army, except to earn hsi bread. As for myself, had I known this, forget the Sainik School or RIMC, I would have never joined the Army.
The relativity in rank and status is irrational and arbitrary, against the letter and spirit of the Constitution and violates my fundamental rights.
(An alumnus of Sainik School Tilaiya, Rashtriya Indian Military College, Deharadun, NDA, Khadakwasla, the author was commissioned into the Sikh Regiment in Jun 1981. he was transferred to the AOC in 1988. He took premature retirement after serving the mandatory period, he now works as the Chief Administrative Officer of a 150-bed hospital in Patna.
collected by Commander
@anonymous Dt 16 Dec 10:35 PM There is no doubt that the attitude of Army in relation to MES has been at times rather hegemonious and it is high time it is corrected for the benefit of Army as whole. The situation must have gone from bad to worse with posting of Lt Col as GEs. I have had tenure in MES long time back and can say that they are also serving the Army with equal dedication under the similar hard conditions. The izzat , for which we are fighting with Govt , we can first give to MES and BRO and work in harmony. Solution is not impossible.
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