Doubts have emerged amongst readers as to what are Group-A services and whether the defence services form a part of Group-A services or not.
For starters, Defence Officers are not Group-A Officers but Commissioned Officers. And the same is true for officers of the IAS too who are also not a part of organised Group-A services, hypertechnically speaking. Broadly, there are four categories of services which have similar status and start from the same level of pay (Pay Band-3 / GP 5400), these are :
(a) Commissioned cadre of the Army, Navy, Air Force
(b) All India Services : IAS, IPS and Indian Forest Service
(c) Organised Group-A Civil Services
(d) Isolated Group-A Civil posts under the Govt of India
Hence, while Commissioned ranks of the services and officers of the IAS, IPS and Indian Forest Service are akin to Group-A services and are placed in Group-A pay scales, technically speaking these are not a part of Group-A services. Organised Group-A services have some common attributes such as a tapered structure towards the top with pay strata like the Junior Time Scale / Senior Time Scale / Selection Grade or Non-Functional Selection Grade / Senior Administrative Grade (and above) with a common HR pool. The organised Group-A civil services also include technical, engineering and medical services.
Moreover, the categorisation of Groups-A/B/C/D (formerly known as Class-I/II/III/IV) is restricted to ‘civil posts of the union’ and does not include in its folds the defence services.
An unofficial list of all organised Group-A civil services has been provided as a comment to the previous post by Vikas which can be accessed by clicking here.
For starters, Defence Officers are not Group-A Officers but Commissioned Officers. And the same is true for officers of the IAS too who are also not a part of organised Group-A services, hypertechnically speaking. Broadly, there are four categories of services which have similar status and start from the same level of pay (Pay Band-3 / GP 5400), these are :
(a) Commissioned cadre of the Army, Navy, Air Force
(b) All India Services : IAS, IPS and Indian Forest Service
(c) Organised Group-A Civil Services
(d) Isolated Group-A Civil posts under the Govt of India
Hence, while Commissioned ranks of the services and officers of the IAS, IPS and Indian Forest Service are akin to Group-A services and are placed in Group-A pay scales, technically speaking these are not a part of Group-A services. Organised Group-A services have some common attributes such as a tapered structure towards the top with pay strata like the Junior Time Scale / Senior Time Scale / Selection Grade or Non-Functional Selection Grade / Senior Administrative Grade (and above) with a common HR pool. The organised Group-A civil services also include technical, engineering and medical services.
Moreover, the categorisation of Groups-A/B/C/D (formerly known as Class-I/II/III/IV) is restricted to ‘civil posts of the union’ and does not include in its folds the defence services.
An unofficial list of all organised Group-A civil services has been provided as a comment to the previous post by Vikas which can be accessed by clicking here.
19 comments:
Navdeep at B probably at (b) you mean Indian Foreign Services
Digvijay,
No. The Indian Foreign Service is not an All India Service.
There are only 3 All India Services - Administrative, Police and Forest.
All India Services are the ones which have a system of State Cadres wherein the services of the officers are lent by the Centre to States and UTs all over India.
Anomalies, anomalies, anomalies....
The absence of a rep from military in SPC has created all this. Hope these get resolved at the earliest.
Let us all bring this great anomaly to our senior commanders so that these may be taken up by services HQ with govt.
EXTENSION OF PARA 3.3.12 OF VI CPC TO COMMISSIONED OFFICERS
1. The problem of stagnation in government service in the same post has been addressed by grant of higher scale on non-functional basis. This is done by three methods namely
(a) Modified Assured Career Progression recommended by VI CPC for all civilian except AIS and organised group ‘A’ services at 10, 20 and 30 years of service. For Armed Forces PBOR it has been given at 8, 16 and 24 years of service.
(b) Grant of higher scale upto Grade Pay of Rs 12000/- to Group ‘A’ services and AIS two years after IAS officers recommended vide para 3.3.12 or VICPC report.
(c) Dynamic ACP for medical doctors by grant of promotion to Grade Pay of Rs 10,000/- on completion of 20 years of service.
2. Only two cadres in the have been exempted from these up gradations i.e. IAS and Commissioned Officers. The IAS has the fastest promotion profile in the entire government services and therefore do not need any promotion on non functional basis. The Armed forces officers have been denied any type of non functional promotion. The services have the steepest pyramidical organizational structure and therefore maximum supersession. This more than any other cadre needs to be addressed. Extension of the provisions recommended vide para 3.3.12 to Commissioned officers is therefore inescapable.
Hi Navdeep,
Is it that difficult for the Govt of India to give the Commissioned Officers of the Armed Forces their due parity??
regards
TKS
Considering the fiasco created by large numbers of anomalies with more continueing to crop up on regular basis ,many of them totally baffling & irrational,we need to force the issue of having a seperate FAST TRACK pay commission for the Armed Forces(which has already been accepted by the PM & UPA)instituted immidiatly to either (A)handle the issue DeNovo with ALL 6CPCR scrapped or (B)Handle ALL anomalies pertaining to Armed Forces & resolve them in a time bound manner.The commission must be headed by an eminent person familiar with org,functioning ðos of Armed Forces & it must have members from AF's (serving& retired)
We must do whatever we can to mitigate the current state of demoralisation of our forces.Issues pertaning to PBOR(eg PB 2 for NCO's etc) must be given top priority.
The problem is, no one at the civil side is aware of the peculiar problems of the armed forces or is bothered. The IAS are reluctant to give any representation to Defence Services in Pay Commision cell due to their high headedness. Also I believe something is lacking in the Defence Services itself.
It appears that their is no dedicated group to keep studying such anamolies (and here I am not refering to just the pay commision) and a consolidated solution is never asked. It is as if every few days we start talking of a new anamoly and look for a temporary solution.
I suggest that a dedicated body is formed to suggest suitable measures to improve the overall standing of the Defence Services in the environment. The body may take some time but must suggest measures which are concrete and not some short time solutions.
Further, asking for minor changes every few months will only show the Services in poor light.
The Prime Minister had promised representation of Defence Services in further pay cells. But it still evades me as to how important office memorandums like "Non functional Upgradation of Officers" ( dated 21 May 2009) are still being issued without any representation of Defence Services which results in their exclusion.
Will the promise only be implemented when the 7th pay commision is formed or we can see some changes in the near future such that further anamolies such as these are not created.
I think we are being rattled day by day by such new announcements. It is evidently clear that when every Tom, Dick and Harry is given everything they realize that there is some institute called Armed Forces also. We have been meted with step motherly treatment since decades and for this our holy cow attitude is solely responsible. We think that we are big cats but truth is otherwise. I don't know where are we heading to? Do really have anybody in the Govt heading us and concerned for us.Only gods can help us because i doubt we are capable of helping our selves with our own stubborn and indifferent hierarchy.Thanks a ton Navdeep sir for keeping us informed and of course for all you have done for our cause.
Rajender
Some one has to bell the cat and officilly take up this anomaly with govt.
Why every time we are left behind. MOD NEEDS TO TELL THE GOVT IN CLEAR TERMS THAT ANY ACTION WHICH AFFECTS THE PAY, PROMOTION etc should not be taken in isolation leaving behind armed forces. After all we are the second largest org after railways in this country.
Maj Navdeep pls help us out and guide the army HQ to take up this anomaly with the govt with out any delay. We need to cry the way we did in case of pb4 for lt cols. Atleast some one would listen and something would come.
May be with seperate pay commission for armed forces the coming generation would not be facing these anomalies and would be free to fight with full 'JOSH' with out worrying about pay and perks.
The basic problem is lack of knowledge and expertise. Army officers don’t want to look beyond the ‘remittance’ box in their pay slips, talking about money is considered un-soldierly and our financial planning starts and ends up in DSOPF. Few of the army officers even know the rules of pay and allowances which affect them directly. It is in such hands that we give the responsibility to handle pay commission issues by posting him in Pay Commission Cell. We do not recognize that problems exist – which is the first step to solving it.
Is it not an irony that we have no source of official information on our salaries, pay commission issues? Is the Pay Commission Cell not responsible to keep the environment aware of what’s happening? Least it could have done is to start it’s own site with open discussion forums.
Can you please provide the table/formulae to calculate arrears of pension of Lt Col of pre 2006 retirees after putting Lt Col in pay band 4.
The Gp A Services in the CPMFs are not Organized Gp A Services.
There may be many other Gp A Services which are also not in the Organized category.
An essential requirement of an Organized Gp A Service is that at least 50% of the entry level posts are to be filled by direct entry officers and another attribute is that all the posts of grade pay of Rs.10,000/-( the V CPC scale of 18400-500-22400) should be filled in by only promotions from within the cadre and not by deputation.
This non functional upgradation in Organized Gp A Services is to address the stagnation in those services vis a vis the IAS and also non availability of adequate opportunities for those services under the central staffing scheme etc.
The services have addressed similar problem through AVSC much before the VI CPC.
Further the order by the Dept. of Pers & Trg for implementing the scheme of non functional upgradation, may reveal that the upgradation is to be carried out by granting one increment and adding the difference in the grade pay to the basic pay. Does it mean the grade pay will be stepped up on upgradation?
The grade pay may remain unchanged.
Dear Navdeep,
Thanks a ton for educating all of us on issues which we never knew. Keep it up.
Best wishes
cheers
The defence pay commission must start with 3rd/4th CPC, as explained by navdeep earlier, all anamolies were created then and futher degradation done by 5th/6th CPC. Just talking of parity now on the basis of 6th CPC recommendations will mean that forces have accepted what ever status/parity/WoP was granted after 3rd CPC. That is what has been the aim of babus to bring down faujis under them, slowly and step by step.
Now after getting MSP and PB4 for Lt. Col who essentially do PB3 jobs done by EE with no selection criteria but time bound promotion - the military edge, you also want parity with Civil Service for this one? It is like eating your cake and having it too? Will you be williing to give up MSP and PB4 for Lt. Col in lieu of this?
I agree with Danny's comment. We donot seems to even ask for ourself."sky"
nice job Sir.we are hearing that LT Col with 21 years of service are going to be promoted to time scale Col.Is this true? please enlighten the environment
unlike central services,defence forces are goverened by MSR(MILITARY SERVICE REGULATIONS) and service personnel are graded in four grade
grade-1 all commissioned ranks
grade-2 all junior commissioned ranks of army/warrant ranks of navy and air force
grade-3 all non commissioned ranks of army/petty officers of navy/senoir non commissioned ranks of airforce
grade-4 other ranks of army/navy/airforce
out of these four grades only grade 1 & 2 are appointed by president either by commission or by warrant under his hand and seal.on other hand no class 1 officers are appointed by president under his hand and seal and appointed on behalf of president.
MCPO VA THEVAR
SECRETARY
VETERAN SAILORS FORUM
CHENNAI
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Matter of factly pre-2004 Majors and post 2004 Lt Cols ought to have been grouped together as both ranks are Time Scale ranks; rank having been given after 13 years of service. Both perform the same functions and have same qualifications and same responsibilities. Pre-2004 Lt Cols (Selection) ought to have been equated with Post-2004 Colonel (Selection) as both ranks have same qualifications, same functions and same responsibilities. Similarly, Pre-2004 Lt Col (TS) ought to be compared with Post-2004 Col (TS). This is the biggest anomaly created by the 6 CPC.
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