A sensible write up is "sensible" even if it comes frm Guptaji..
It is welcome and refreshing. However, it is the media led by Mr Gupta and likes that has "harmed" the "Harmed Forces" the most as they played a prejudicial bypartisan paid role for the interest of IAS led bureaucracy.... rather than being objective.
Having harmed the forces, he is now applying some soothing balm... to remain in job.... perhaps.
However, thanks Mr G... you have already earned your Padma award.
theres an old saying that when one of ur own gets targeted by rank outsiders the house gets in order to save or rally around its kin. this can be applied to guptas' article on being rattled about paki media.
ask him about sukhna then u'll see him in true colors.
think we are getting it wrong. Guptaji has done no such thing as `making up'! Please read the article carefully. (a) As per Guptaji, Indian General is not important enough to be bothered about his views. Not agreed? Read, `in one fundamental sense we do not take our generals as seriously as the Pakistanis do because, howsoever radical their views, we know that they do not control larger strategic policy'. (b)As per Guptaji, he and his ilk `respect and love them(Indian Generals)'. Why? Because they know their place. Simple! Chowkidar must remain outside. Do not dare join the high table! (c)Recently some of our Generals especially Sureesh Mehta types have shown courage and ability to take a stand thus he finds them `complaining in public', `washing that dirty linen in public' and `more garrulous'. Why? Because they took on the Bureaucracy and their backers in media on the pay and status related issues. Even today Guptaji syas that`I disagreed with their method, but in substance they are mostly right'. Remember they took the grievances to the `Government'.So nothing wrong with the method. Apparently what rankled with the friends of Guptaji was percieved loss of their "control" over the armed forces. Afterall `they' got Padma award to Guptaji. (d) What kind of Generals does he want? Well `The generals, not clever enough'. By praising Guptaji for this slieght of hand article we are proving him right - that we are `not clever enough'.
Three cheers for shedding crocodile tears(read Shekars tears).One article on VI CPC written by the respected journalist did an unrepairable damage to defence forces psyche and now hype of Land Scandal. Will some one elaborate what the scandal is? If issue of No Objection Certificate for an educational institute is a scandal than please explain how VIRTUE will be defined by this sick and deranged Godfathers of moral policing over Armed Forces? As a veteran I can assure Defence Forces know how to keep their house in order and please dont try to teach the Generals(definitely they are not general) how to run the Indian Army.Please stay away from the armed forces because Elephants and Soldiers have very long memories specially if these are abusive, humiliating and unjustified.
Gupta ji is too shrewed a creature to be judged from this article. He must be on some mission success of which demanded this swan song. Keep a note of my words and watch this space in future.
What's happening ,Mr gupta?who hit u on yer head?Anyways,it will just be time before u are back to ur caustic best at belittling the armed forces..........worry not,,,,,,,,,,,,,ALL IS WELL
Transparancy is a vitrue which u displayed till 6 months back. You have now become like one of us.
Even your so called new year gift is like censiored British Raj Press.
Wake up it is not late, yet.
Your readers are only going to make u HERO OR A VILLAIN OTHERWISE FRANKILY SPEAKING WE ALL ARE NORMAL HUMAN BEING, .. SOME OF US ARE ONLY LUCKY BECAUSE OF CERTAIN CERCUMSTANCES.
The above actually means that application of physical force is inferior in front of application of mind. All leaders of men, who lead their troops into victory know that. That is essential of Art of Warfare. That is what is suggested by the famous Gita motto - Yudhaya Krita Nishchaya" or "Nischaya Kar Apani Jeet Karon". In all this the mental activity of "nischaya" is empasised all along.
Alas! the above when translated to the Social realms and elitist landscape is crudely understood to be a naked Castist truth. The bureaucratic Scheming is supirior to Physical application of the Force"
Somehow, that mindset has let us down everywhere. Centuries downward and in the recent past. Our land and borders, our frontiers, our strategic regions all have been grabbed by application of that "dhik" Chhatrya balam (application of physical Force) and our supirior Bramha Tej types have been a let down.
That is what exactly Mr Gupta is telling his Pakistani Counterparts ! Never mind what an Indian General says. He is tamed and without teeth. He is a snake without fangs and venom. India does not require potent military but a ceremonial ones who could salute the likes of Gupta and Chandrasekhar Ji. He was assuring the Pakistani counter parts that while they can carry on planning another Kargil or Mumbay, Indians are applying their scheming brains in ensuring "Regime Stability" by making those incharge of National Security who have spent their lives spying on political opponents and ensuring electoral victories. Courtiers and henchmen will ditermine the National Security rather than professionals. So Pakistanies need not worry ! If any General barks, he will be shown his place. Indian Security is dispensable but not the Regime and Dynesty.
That is what Mr Guta is marvalling at ?
Wah Wah.... we need many more such well wishers...
Gupta openly insults the forces again and here are friends almost praising him. If this is called making it then people are really dumb and thats what Gupta Ji wants
I am aware of a letter issued by Min of Surface Transport authorising defence presonnel to drive their personal vehicles registered in one state to drive in other states.
Mr Gupta's latest reminds me of that oft spoken dialogue by Meena Kumari (actress) "Main Kya karoon; Kahan Jaoon". How can Mr Gupta take this holier than thou approach and throw stones at everyone else. Just because he publishes that autocratic pamphlet doesn't make him a high priest of Journalism.
One can't deny the rot within, but people like Mr Gupta sermonising about it is hugely laughable. I am sure tomorrow if he is again thrown a few bones, he will scream at the top of his lungs about how armed forces need to be "put in their place".
'Road Tax' I believe is a 'State Subject' and the Union Ministry cannot hence pass any order to States on the same. Some States have however suo-moto exempted defence personnel from this.
pse put up a poster outside his office or residence having the extracts of all the scathing remarks of faujis written against him, alongwith a bouqet of flowers asking him to get well soon(gandhigiri style)
One may like to go through Ajay shukla take on this which is sensible and logical. Read this "Muzzling the military; sealed lips tell no tales" in "http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/01/muzzling-military-sealed-lips-tell-no.html"
He has mentioned Samuel Huntington’s widely acclaimed theory of “objective control” of the military. If you are agaitated about the recent happenings in our society about Military and want to know what others thought of it,Samuel Huntington’s " Military and the State"is a must read. Kautilya's Arthasastra is another villianary guide on how to handle "Senapati" which our bureacrates appear to be following blindly.
Indeed it is very 'interesting' commentary on contemporary Generalship by Shekhar Gupta. Interesting in many ways. I had the opportunity to read it yesterday while browsing www.indianmilitary.It did evoke reactions. At the face value, the article appears to be goody-goody for the forces. But have a deeper insight and the truth will emerge. The entire article is paradoxical and self contradicting. Guptaji, though a journalist, is at his diplomatic best. A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you will look forward to the trip. That's what our dear friend Guptaji is doing-munh mein ram,bagal mein chhuri.
I shall not attempt to unveal his intent as one is perplexed by his naivity in publishing such an article." The generals, not clever enough-and not expected to be so-" are certainly intelligent enough to see through such designs.
Guptaji has begun well by choosing a very apt title for his article as "Our Harmed Forces", thereby appearing to be sympathetic and best friend(the media fraternity). He has lamented the politicians, the beaurocrats, the forces, the civil society for whatever state of affairs prevailing, but with a cunning design has leftout media-the fourth state, out of all this, as if they are sacred cows.
He knows that the moment he open mouth against his own kith and kin he shall be ostracised. So keep mum for their role, for which the lesser said is better.
Guptaji, pl be brave with your pen at least. Don't fail us here. We never failed you fighting enemies-inspite of all the ills that you have written about.
A sensible write up is "sensible" even if it comes frm Guptaji..
ReplyDeleteIt is welcome and refreshing. However, it is the media led by Mr Gupta and likes that has "harmed" the "Harmed Forces" the most as they played a prejudicial bypartisan paid role for the interest of IAS led bureaucracy.... rather than being objective.
Having harmed the forces, he is now applying some soothing balm... to remain in job.... perhaps.
However, thanks Mr G... you have already earned your Padma award.
And, Guptaji, is an honourable man.
ReplyDeleteMr Shekhar Gupta has written an apt artilce in his style. Our defence forces need to develop some strategy in media handling as well.
ReplyDeleteA good article.
ReplyDeleteBut we, who are serving have must also realise that we are the leaders of this "HARMED FORCES"
LET IT BE HARMED by
our inaction,
our lust to get 9 pointer ACR at "ANY COST",
and letting our oath taken in Chetwode hall be inverted upside down the moment we become commander of any size force.
Remember, at Nuremberg trials senior officers were punished for not opposing Hitler when they knew that his orders were illegal.
We are repeating the same mistakes.
Our senior hierarchy is not following even fraction of oath taken at their passing out.
theres an old saying that when one of ur own gets targeted by rank outsiders the house gets in order to save or rally around its kin. this can be applied to guptas' article on being rattled about paki media.
ReplyDeleteask him about sukhna then u'll see him in true colors.
Shekhar Gupta WAKES UP. Wondering if it is for the "FORces" OR against the "BARbs".
ReplyDeletethink we are getting it wrong. Guptaji has done no such thing as `making up'! Please read the article carefully.
ReplyDelete(a) As per Guptaji, Indian General is not important enough to be bothered about his views. Not agreed? Read, `in one fundamental sense we do not take our generals as seriously as the Pakistanis do because, howsoever radical their views, we know that they do not control larger strategic policy'.
(b)As per Guptaji, he and his ilk `respect and love them(Indian Generals)'. Why? Because they know their place. Simple! Chowkidar must remain outside. Do not dare join the high table! (c)Recently some of our Generals especially Sureesh Mehta types have shown courage and ability to take a stand thus he finds them `complaining in public', `washing that dirty linen in public' and `more garrulous'. Why? Because they took on the Bureaucracy and their backers in media on the pay and status related issues. Even today Guptaji syas that`I disagreed with their method, but in substance they are mostly right'. Remember they took the grievances to the `Government'.So nothing wrong with the method. Apparently what rankled with the friends of Guptaji was percieved loss of their "control" over the armed forces. Afterall `they' got Padma award to Guptaji. (d) What kind of Generals does he want? Well `The generals, not clever enough'. By praising Guptaji for this slieght of hand article we are proving him right - that we are `not clever enough'.
Three cheers for shedding crocodile tears(read Shekars tears).One article on VI CPC written by the respected journalist did an unrepairable damage to defence forces psyche and now hype of Land Scandal. Will some one elaborate what the scandal is? If issue of No Objection Certificate for an educational institute is a scandal than please explain how VIRTUE will be defined by this sick and deranged Godfathers of moral policing over Armed Forces? As a veteran I can assure Defence Forces know how to keep their house in order and please dont try to teach the Generals(definitely they are not general) how to run the Indian Army.Please stay away from the armed forces because Elephants and Soldiers have very long memories specially if these are abusive, humiliating and unjustified.
ReplyDeleteGupta ji is too shrewed a creature to be judged from this article. He must be on some mission success of which demanded this swan song. Keep a note of my words and watch this space in future.
ReplyDeleteWhat's happening ,Mr gupta?who hit u on yer head?Anyways,it will just be time before u are back to ur caustic best at belittling the armed forces..........worry not,,,,,,,,,,,,,ALL IS WELL
ReplyDeleteTransparancy is a vitrue which u displayed till 6 months back. You have now become like one of us.
ReplyDeleteEven your so called new year gift is like censiored British Raj Press.
Wake up it is not late, yet.
Your readers are only going to make u HERO OR A VILLAIN OTHERWISE FRANKILY SPEAKING WE ALL ARE NORMAL HUMAN BEING, .. SOME OF US ARE ONLY LUCKY BECAUSE OF CERTAIN CERCUMSTANCES.
GOD BELESS
The very title "Guptaji makes up"...is NOT apt after all our experience with him and shows naivety at best
ReplyDeleteDear All,
ReplyDeleteGuptaji has done and explained what the Indian elites have been doing the best. The summary of all is :
Chhatriya Balam Dhik Balam, Bramha Tejo Balam Balam
The above actually means that application of physical force is inferior in front of application of mind. All leaders of men, who lead their troops into victory know that. That is essential of Art of Warfare. That is what is suggested by the famous Gita motto - Yudhaya Krita Nishchaya" or "Nischaya Kar Apani Jeet Karon". In all this the mental activity of "nischaya" is empasised all along.
Alas! the above when translated to the Social realms and elitist landscape is crudely understood to be a naked Castist truth. The bureaucratic Scheming is supirior to Physical application of the Force"
Somehow, that mindset has let us down everywhere. Centuries downward and in the recent past. Our land and borders, our frontiers, our strategic regions all have been grabbed by application of that "dhik" Chhatrya balam (application of physical Force) and our supirior Bramha Tej types have been a let down.
That is what exactly Mr Gupta is telling his Pakistani Counterparts ! Never mind what an Indian General says. He is tamed and without teeth. He is a snake without fangs and venom. India does not require potent military but a ceremonial ones who could salute the likes of Gupta and Chandrasekhar Ji. He was assuring the Pakistani counter parts that while they can carry on planning another Kargil or Mumbay, Indians are applying their scheming brains in ensuring "Regime Stability" by making those incharge of National Security who have spent their lives spying on political opponents and ensuring electoral victories. Courtiers and henchmen will ditermine the National Security rather than professionals. So Pakistanies need not worry ! If any General barks, he will be shown his place. Indian Security is dispensable but not the Regime and Dynesty.
That is what Mr Guta is marvalling at ?
Wah Wah.... we need many more such well wishers...
In consonance with Anonymous @ 6:49 PM on 16 Jan, 2010 and Anonymous @ 6:52 AM on 17 Jan, 2010.
ReplyDeleteWell done . Very aptly brought out.
Keep it up.
Truth does hurt.
ReplyDeleteGupta openly insults the forces again and here are friends almost praising him. If this is called making it then people are really dumb and thats what Gupta Ji wants
ReplyDeleteDear Maj Navdeep
ReplyDeleteI am aware of a letter issued by Min of Surface Transport authorising defence presonnel to drive their personal vehicles registered in one state to drive in other states.
May I get a copy of it.
Thanking you in advance
Wg Cdr Ravindra Bhatnagar
tanuanjul@gmail.com
Mr Gupta's latest reminds me of that oft spoken dialogue by Meena Kumari (actress) "Main Kya karoon; Kahan Jaoon". How can Mr Gupta take this holier than thou approach and throw stones at everyone else. Just because he publishes that autocratic pamphlet doesn't make him a high priest of Journalism.
ReplyDeleteOne can't deny the rot within, but people like Mr Gupta sermonising about it is hugely laughable. I am sure tomorrow if he is again thrown a few bones, he will scream at the top of his lungs about how armed forces need to be "put in their place".
@Wg Cdr Bhatnagar
ReplyDelete'Road Tax' I believe is a 'State Subject' and the Union Ministry cannot hence pass any order to States on the same. Some States have however suo-moto exempted defence personnel from this.
Thanks
unless Gupta ji sees all these comments,he will not realize the 'feelings' of we soldirs. Is there a way that he is made to see these comments?
ReplyDeleteannon @1040 am
ReplyDeletepse put up a poster outside his office or residence having the extracts of all the scathing remarks of faujis written against him, alongwith a bouqet of flowers asking him to get well soon(gandhigiri style)
let us not bogged down whenever some one criticize .
ReplyDeletei came to know about the existance of such an article only through this blog .
i dont understand why so hue and cry about a petty piece of paper .
let us accept some open discussion in public about armed forces .
ultimately truth will prevail .
however some issues raised r relevent
not much is being done for modernisation of forces .
there are black sheeps in the armed forces . let the us not go hysterical about slighest criticism .
there is urgent need for strtageic thinking beyond present in armed forces .
public perception of any organisation is important .
let us not treat armed forces as a sacred cow . let us help the truth to come out .
This has generated a good discussion as expected.
ReplyDeleteOne may like to go through Ajay shukla take on this which is sensible and logical. Read this "Muzzling the military; sealed lips tell no tales" in "http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/01/muzzling-military-sealed-lips-tell-no.html"
He has mentioned Samuel Huntington’s widely acclaimed theory of “objective control” of the military. If you are agaitated about the recent happenings in our society about Military and want to know what others thought of it,Samuel Huntington’s " Military and the State"is a must read. Kautilya's Arthasastra is another villianary guide on how to handle "Senapati" which our bureacrates appear to be following blindly.
Wishing all of you a good reading.
Indeed it is very 'interesting' commentary on contemporary Generalship by Shekhar Gupta. Interesting in many ways. I had the opportunity to read it yesterday while browsing www.indianmilitary.It did evoke reactions.
ReplyDeleteAt the face value, the article appears to be goody-goody for the forces. But have a deeper insight and the truth will emerge.
The entire article is paradoxical and self contradicting.
Guptaji, though a journalist, is at his diplomatic best. A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you will look forward to the trip.
That's what our dear friend Guptaji is doing-munh mein ram,bagal mein chhuri.
I shall not attempt to unveal his intent as one is perplexed by his naivity in publishing such an article." The generals, not clever enough-and not expected to be so-" are certainly intelligent enough to see through such designs.
Guptaji has begun well by choosing a very apt title for his article as "Our Harmed Forces", thereby appearing to be sympathetic and best friend(the media fraternity). He has lamented the politicians, the beaurocrats, the forces, the civil society for whatever state of affairs prevailing, but with a cunning design has leftout media-the fourth state, out of all this, as if they are sacred cows.
He knows that the moment he open mouth against his own kith and kin he shall be ostracised. So keep mum for their role, for which the lesser said is better.
Guptaji, pl be brave with your pen at least. Don't fail us here. We never failed you fighting enemies-inspite of all the ills that you have written about.
sirs
ReplyDeletemedia write so many things about everybody .
it is also true that a free press is the main pillar of a matured democracy .
so let us not critisize gupta ji or any body from the media in person . we should analize the issues raised and write protest if do not agree.
let us remember that if there is smoke then there r chances of fire .
once we propogate RTI for others
then why we r so scared when some body points a finger at armed forces .
one thing is clear ,media reports and public perception always mirror each other .
so one can not deny a media report all together .
no one can control media wheather it is politicians , bureaucrates ,
judges , or any other section of society including armed forces .
one can remember , even in pakistan media played a great role about in ouster of gen mussaraf .
we should now work for iimproving the image of forces in masses , which unfourtaley is not very goody goody .
thanks