It was expected that these comments by the Hon’ble Supreme Court would haunt us. ‘Don’t treat soldiers like beggars’, the Apex Court had remarked. But did the disparaging remarks have any effect ? The test of the same would be the number of explanations called by senior Defence Ministry functionaries on the issue. But were any questions asked, any corrective measures initiated, any papers floated ? I don’t know. Probably zilch, probably some, time shall tell.
The auto-pilot mode of some departments and ministries in filing frivolous appeals has irked the Law Ministry no end. Besides some recent directions, the Law Ministry had shot a missive to all departments and ministries last year in September too. It can be viewed by clicking here. Hopefully the civilian staff of the MoD would realise that sometimes it does not pay to take a purely legalistic view of human issues. After all, we are dealing with humans here, not machines or corporates. Or is it the subsidised liquor or free rations which trouble them ?
The auto-pilot mode of some departments and ministries in filing frivolous appeals has irked the Law Ministry no end. Besides some recent directions, the Law Ministry had shot a missive to all departments and ministries last year in September too. It can be viewed by clicking here. Hopefully the civilian staff of the MoD would realise that sometimes it does not pay to take a purely legalistic view of human issues. After all, we are dealing with humans here, not machines or corporates. Or is it the subsidised liquor or free rations which trouble them ?
36 comments:
Navdeep - I think we should avoid the use of FREE RATIONS.
Nothing comes FREE including FREEDOM and DIGNITY. The rations are given to us as CTG. In fact the XLRI also included this while submitting their warped study to the SCPC. I say warped because they comapred salaries at a point in time and not over the period of employment where in the civilian gets much better take homes. Ever seen a Collector or a Police Commissioner going to a Restaurant in a small town. He doesn't pay after gorging. NOW - that FREE RATIONS. Ever seen the Town & Country planning staff of AE in depts fleecing people of moolah. When they & their brood glut on that moolah - Thats FREE RATIONS. The Liquor or the CSD facilities are chicken feed comapred to the FREEBIES these chaps & CHAPPIES (nice word - since both women & men from the Panchayat upwards are Entiltled (Read like our FREE)such grafts.
Like wise such words like PBOR. When a Police Constable is a Police officer how dare the MoD tag and deride an Army Jawan as Person Below Officer Rank. Even an NCO is a Non Commissioned Officer
Anonymous @0808 said
"He doesn't pay after gorging. NOW - that FREE RATIONS."
ROTFL. What an explanation sir! Hats Off! I know its not a matter for laughing, but couldn't help it.
Why stop only at PBOR, where does in the nomenclature of the Govt is a term like Col (TS). When we ourselves are re-inventing Manu Smriti, why blame others!
dear major navdeep
ACTUALLY YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS A DOUBLE EDGED WEAPON . YOU R PROJECTING THE problem as civilian v/s army . in mixed organisations there r many court orders in which army bosses have appealed up to supreme court against many orders which are in favour of civilians .
moreever many appeals are filed by ministry on recommendation of senior officers of army .
so this malice is universally applicable armed forces or civilians . actually this is the problem between an individual and the system .
so in my humble view , projecting this problem of appeals as problem among civilians and army is not correct .
it is basically problem of ego that appeals are filed as a routine .
The correct word is ENTITLED RATION ,and NOT FREE RATION .
If Pay and allowances,CSD facilities,entitled rations,subsidised liquor etc .are so attractive then why is there so much shortage of officers in the Armed Forces .Why the youngsters are going to better paying private sector.Obviously the disadvantages like risk to life ,difficult service conditions,separation from families,disruption in children education,outweigh the attractions of entitled ration etc .
If I am not mistaken the Rank Pay case of 4th Pay Commission was created by Defence Ministry only .The remarks made by Supreme Court of India are against them only.They should take corrective measures and undo the mistakes and also note this for future also .
@Col Mathur at 4.56
I hope you caught the spirit and the meaning behind the 'free rations' remarks by me.
Dear Major Navdeep ,I fully appreciate your views.It is a great service you are doing to all of us by devoting so much of your time and energy from your busy life .May God Bless you .
Savings on 08 bottles of whisky entitled to us in 1 month in CSD = Rs 200x8= Rs 1600/-
Cost of 1 month entitled/free ration as per Govt itself = Rs 900/-
Total savings per month = Rs 2500/-
All the hulla, gulla, breast beating,and loss of face...Priceless!!
Anonymous said... April 22, 2010 9:05 PM Savings on 08 bottles of whisky entitled to
NOW LOOK AT ALL THESE MONTHLY SAVINGS:
* Savings of 20000 to Panchayat Executive Officer (Nk level) for each plan submission
* Savings of Rs 5000 to RTO for each red route license
* Savings of 1000 to Line man for electricity connection
* Saving of Rs 5000 to writer in Police station to file complaint
* Savings of Rs 10000 average to Supdt of Central Excise for Menstrual collections from his range/ward
Savings to Rs 2-3 Lakhs to IT Commissioner to brush small offences under the carpet
AND MANY MANY MORE. THE LIST IS ENDLESS.
ALL THIS AND MANY MORE DONE WITH THE BLESSINGS OF IAS/IPS WHO TOP THE LIST WITH EXAMPLES OF 40 CRORES SAVINGS RECOVERED FROM AN IAS COUPLE
YESTERDAY IN PARLIAMENT THE SPORTS MINISTER PROUDLY TOLD THE HOUSE HOW HE HAD DOUBLED PENSIONARY & OTHER BENEFITS FOR SPORTPERSONS.
CAN THE DEFENCE MINISTER STAND TALL LIKE THIS?
A SURVEY LAST YEAR SAID THAT EVERY Below Poverty Level INDIAN PAID ABOUT Rs 495 AS BRIBES. THAT MEANS THE BABUS NETAS HAD A SAVINGS OF Rs 250000 CRORES LAST YEAR
BEAT THAT!
Aur Hum log ek Railway Pass ke liye gid gidda rahe hain.
Dear Major/ others interested,
Moot point of the circular and THE note is that for frivolous reasons, the Ministries shall not go for appeals against court verdicts and Govt shall not try to be willing litigants.
This is far away from truth. Even the Min of Law & Justice appears to be a party to REPEATED LITIGATIONS knowingly or unknowingly.
Lower end Legal Advisers in Min of L & J who appear to lack professional experience, indulge in "short-changing" or "short-circuiting" decisions on important issues, without allowing the said matter going up for the opinion of HIGHER "PROFESSIONAL" AUTHORITIES like Addl Solicitor General etc..
For example, a Deptt dealing with Pensions appeared to refer a matter affecting lacks of pensioners - on the issue of "Modified Parity" of 5CPC/ 6 CPC revised pension implementations, and the file note seemed to mention "The Deptt would request the Asstt Legal Adviser , if considered may, opinion of the Addl Solicitor General of India may be obtained in this respect".
Short-charging the same, the Min L & J's lower end heirarchy appeared to DECIDE at his level itself (either to show his own authority or to please the other side babus,....)by recording on and returning the file with notes.... ".... in view of the above, since the categorisation of pensioners was already examined and vetted by the Apex Court and no other legal or Constitutional issue is involved, there APPEARS to be no necessity to bother the Learned Addl. Sol. General on the issue".
What a calamity this has brought now? File was moved in Dec/ Jan
2009 and if the file had gone to the Addl Sol Gen and being a mature/ professional authority, he wd have given a good advice to the Govt. not to undermine the JUST issues and overlook earlier Court verdicts upholding principles of Natural Justice on MINIMUM GUARANTEED POENSION at least for all without the cut-off dates etc. As a result, today there are a DOZEN cases fighting for Modified Parity alone in CIVIL and MILITARY tribunals/ COURTS as all know!
The same authority who has issued the Circular/ OM of Sept 2009 appeared to be the authority who had also endorsed the file notes in a routine way.
Law maker itself is the Law breaker here.
NEVERTHELESS, CAN NOT THE MINISTRY OF LAW & JUSTICE PUT ITS FOOT DOWN ON THE CONCERNED MINISTRIES - PARTICULARLY THOSE DEALING WITH THE PENSIONS- MILITARY & CIVIL- AND SEE TO IT THAT THE PENSION PARITY/ GRANT & RELATED ISSUES DO NOT GO UP TO THE HIGHEST COURTS EVERYTIME?
HOW CAN THE"MINIMUM GUARANTEED PENSION" FOR A "SCALED PAY PENSIONER" VARY EVERY TIME?
ARE WE DEALING WITH A SET OF DUMB-HEADED/ DULL WITTED AUTHORS AND AUTHORITIES WHO CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE MINIMUM PRESCRIBED PRINCIPLES OF RULE OF LAW/ ETHICS OF GOVERNANCE TO ENSURE MINIMUM NATURAL JUSTICE TO ALL CATEGORIES/ TYPES OF PENSIONERS IN BOTH CIVIL & MILITARY DOMAINS?
LET THE MINISTRY OF LAW & JUSTICE BE MORE PRAGMATIC THIS TIME AND CUT DOWN THE "RELUCTANT" LITIGATIONS! This will save lot of Court time/ Monetary expenditure and make the concerned Personnel more responsible and accountable.
reading the whole comments it appears that people erred in recognising the problem and
projecting it as civilian v/s army .
people may talk anything about free ration etc . . one need not to bother and browbeat the issue .
every body has a right to have its entitled ration ot other facilities weather it is a civilian or fauji .
neither the issue in question here is corruption by civilians or armed forces .
so readers are requested to write only relevent comment pertaining to that particular blog only .
other wise we shall not reach anywhere .
i request the administrator to delete the irrevelent comments or
bashing of civilians or armed forces .
let us concentrate on core service matters of armed forces which is the main objective of this blog .
let us use this blog to educate us on sound logic .
@FIGHTER said...bashing of civilians or armed forces
Though you carry the nom de plume of Fighter I guess names are deceptive.
Over the years the prim & proper service upbringing of the Armed Forces has made them lump the systemic degradation with decency. Decency was taken as a sign of weakness. How come whenever the truth is stated somebody on the blog wants its deleted. Facts are bitter.
There is a chap called Pragmatic who takes every step to bring down the services. When anti-services posts come in he gets orgasmic but changes the topic or deletes the truth when facts about the Babus are posted. In fact Pragmatic frequently picks up his frugal knowledge from glossy US magazines and tries to impress the reader. He has no opinion of his own. In fact he has the dubious distinction of commenting on every Chiefs statement. I wonder why he doesn't make the same when the Cabinet Secretary drops bloomers.
In the Civil Services Reforms Committe the IAS has even expressed its desire to bring the Police force down to a Directorate Status. This way the Politician who is unsure of his next five years and the other Civil Services will be under command this bunch of irresponsible and unnacountable rogues.
It is not a question of the Civil -vs- Military. The average Civil Servant has respect for the Armed forces but it is the IAS whose designs to control the Govt machinery is being thwarted by the Military not toeing the line.
That is why the systemic degradation.
It is not only the question of external security. It is also a question of an Bureaucratic Coup where the IAS plans to overthrow the Politician and install a Bureaucratic Autocracy where politicians will cease to be democraticaly elected and will be fall guys for bureaucratic incompetance.
The Bureaucratic Coup being planned by the IAS is deadlier than a Military coup since it will lead to a National Decay.
In the Lal Bahadur Academy probationer IAS trainees are indoctrinated into this thought process which is evident from the papers they write. The Brahminical caste of the IAS is also keen to ensure that the State Civil services do not get on their pedestal. That is why even tough the Britishers have left the country the IAS still deals with states as though they belong to an Abstract Nation under whose occupation the Indian States have been placed.
Think about it fighter? At some stage you have to stand up for your rights especially when you are being taken for granted.
Sorry for sounding cynical but I don't think things are going to change for better in a hurry! But yes NO HARM in 'hoping' for a better system (even if the hope appears to be more of a 'pipedream'!)
@ Harry - you are not cynical but intellectual in your views.
Having been associated with NDA for past 25-30 yrs, I am in variance with some views expressed in this and other blogs. While, it may be a fact that not many in the young generation select Army as a profession today - the intake and motivation continues to be very strong. In fact, excellent outputs continue to be churned out today, if not better than the past. Soldering, is and will in my humble opinion, continue to remain the best profession in India by a mile, despite the so called 'lucrative corporate options' available today.
@anonymous.Armed forces used to be a good career option long time back .It is not so today .Are the members of the Armed Forces ,serving or retired getting the treatment that they deserve .Please reply .
@ Lt Col KB Mathur
Personally, I have a nephew in the Army and another one in the Corporate. The Army one is the cynosure in the eyes of the complete family. He recently commanded a UN parade and it was a real proud moment. Tell me how many of the corporate guys enjoy those kind of experiences.
I think it is a question of perception. I agree though that in the environment of fallen ethics and values, Army guys do not get their due at all - but in my perception, that does not reduce the sheen of the nobility of the soldering career.
@ANONY at 1009pm.
Couldn't agree more with your views. A slow and steady coup by the steel frame is taking place and the media seems to be working hand in glove with this process. The governance has become absolutely opaque and is favoring only the resourceful. Even if RTI has been called a new weapon, the steel frame is ensuring that it stays insular.
Huge number of service laws and amendments meant only to make the position of a civil "servant" unaccountable is disturbing. Sixth PC was just one more tool for these guys to strengthen their place. Where is this going to lead, is any-body's guess. Due to this reason alone we hear statements like "we need to put military in its place" from highest level of bureucrazy. Power without responsibility and pilf without accountability, that seems to be the new motto of LBA.
@anonymous.Who is interested in the nobility of the soldiering career when you yourself agree that armed forces people do not get their due at all .
@Anonymous.I passed out of NDA in 1964.Those days all the squadrons were full to the capacity .Today the capacity at NDA and IMA is underutilised .Have you tried to find the reasons for this .If you cant find reasonsI for this ,please talk to some serving and retired officers .They will put you wiser,I am sure .If a person joins the noble profession ,he expects to get what is due to him .And if he does not get what is due to him ,he gets frustrated .I keep reading the views of very senior ,highly decorated Generals and equivalent ranks and they are not happy the way things are .Everybody cannot be wrong .
Dear Maj Navdeep,
Sorry for deviating a little from the topic of the blog, I want to know the answer of a question which is going on in my mind since I have joined the govt service as Gp 'A' officer in one of inter service organization.
It is about the role of women in defence services (except AFMS and MNS).As far as my knowledge goes women are not allowed in combat units of Army, AF and Navy. In army they are mainly serving in units like ASC, Ordnance ,Engineers etc.Men from these units also go for tenure in RR and AR and these units are also involved in operations in peace areas like rescue operations due to flood, earth quake, riots etc etc..my question is - Do women serving in these units also take part in operations as mentioned above in the same fashion as their male colleague ?? In case some emergency occurs somewhere in peace station the CO of the unit will also send his women officer to take part in operation and will he not prefer a Male Capt/Lt over a Lady Major??
If yes then its fine that they are serving the purpose for which they have been taken into service and the buck stops here.
If no, then
1. what is the compulsion to the govt to recruit women in the defence services????
2. What is the compulsion to the govt to give all kind of equal benefits (and in some cases more also-as child care leave)as compared to the male counterpart.
3. And the latest, what is the compulsion of giving Permanent Commission to them?
Is it not a kind reverse discrimination and clear case of less work and equal pay???
At last I will like to tell that I have no ill feeling against women officers and I also acknowledge the fact that in civil side there performance are many times better than their male counter part but what about their performance in defence services??..They are enjoying all the goodies of defence services and cleverly ducking the bouncers.
@ Col KB Mathur
I am a AVM from 39 th NDA. I know it is fashionable today to criticise the Services environment and indeed I understand I am in the minority when I speak highly about it. Maybe it is a lot emotional and part logic. regarding my views. In my defence if I may pull a quote from the French Revolution - "I may not agree with a word that you say but I defend to death your right to say it"
God Bless all including our current generation Servicemen who I feel are fantastic and possibly better than us from the old block! Cheers
@ Anonymous said... It is about the role of women in defence services .....April 25, 2010 4:00 PM
Here is something I read about women in the Armed forces especially since when the debate was hot we had a lot of IPS officers advocating it for the fighting arms even though they do not practice what they preach.
While going through this Dantewada Massacre(?) I wonder why the Big Bindi Females and those Female Activists who scream better than Banshees on TV are missing. Isn't this the ideal launchpad to induct women into a combat force? The male IPS officers are shitting bricks and are volunteer LOB.(Left Out of Battle).
SO
Why don't we have the women IPS officers leading the CRPF men at the Company/Battalion Level? After all those Big Bindi Horror show Prototypes talked about women in combat in the LTTE and Naxals cadres. So why don't they start here. No mine fields to cross - no artillery fire - no enemy who will capture and rape a 1000 times -
SO
isn't this the ideal time for inducting women into the combat arm of the CPO/PMF. There was some chap called Kamwat (More like Come-what- I'll talk) the DG BSF who spoke on TV gloating about how women had been inducted into the BSF. Kiran Bedi spoke of how succesful they were in the Police and how the Army mindset was a roadblock to getting women to enter the combat arms of the Armed forces. As an IPS officer let Kiran Bedi put her mouth where the money is and ensure that women IPS officer lead the CRPF Battalions at the Company and Battalion level in the jungles. Let her show that the mindset can be removed starting from the organisation she claims to have made radical changes in?
@ anonymous April 23, 2010 10:09 PM
i think fear expressed are totally unfounded . total diversion from the the issue .
this blog is not for IAS bashing or promote a war among civilians v/s army .i think we we must be remain focussed about demands and needs of armed forces .
closing down IAS or any civil service is not a possibility in near future .
we must remember that beyond 10 -12 laks of armed forces everbody is counted as a civilian.
any deviation from core issues is just wastage of time , like i am writing here is totally useless .
this is not the purpose of this blog at all .
thanks to all
@ Fighter - I really fail to see why you want to term it as WAR between the civilian and the Army. I am sure it would not be with malicious intent? If you read the posts you will notice that it is about systemic degradation which one cannot accept as innate but catalysed by an agency.
So by bringing the issue to a WAR between the Civil and the Army is like twisting the core issue by a socially prim statement. Like what politicians do when they want their vile designs to be given a sympathic ear by flavouring it with religion and caste.
What we are talking of is Civil services Reforms. which are needed urgently. The reforming of an organisation that has refused to break away from the Colonial rulers arrogance. Tell me- Why is a District administrative Officer called a Collector in free India? What does he collect?
Why does he still stick on to the Palatial one Acre bungalow when office space is scarce for good administration? Why cant the IPS and IAS officers live alongwith other Gp A officers like the Central Excise and Revenue and Income Tax depts in a city in Govt housing flats of their grade? Why cant IPS officers rub shoulders with CRPF men at the Platoon /Company level so that they would not send them to their deaths due to ignorance of operational subtleties?
@ anonymous April 26, 2010 5:41
again i keep my same stand .
this website is for raising issues concerning armed forces .
not for maligning other services .
raise the issues concerning armed forces in clear terms . do not target IAS or IPS or any other service from behind the viel . just remain focused on armed forces issue .
issue raised by major navdeep in this particular blog is the repeated appeals by highers ups against the orders of courts so that govt itself has turned to be the biggest litigant .
u have taken the issue to IAS or ips BASHING
so my request is just to remain focussed .
thanks .
THANKS AND REGARDS
@FIGHTER 26 April 2010 8.55 PM .I agree with what you say .Irrelevant comments should not be allowed .Such comments waste the time of other people and are off the mark .We are not here to fight with one another ,but to learn from each other .
My two cents:
Although we might say that what has been discussed above is not relevant to the post. However, I disagree.
As fighter said... "issue raised by major navdeep in this particular blog is the repeated appeals by highers ups against the orders of courts so that govt itself has turned to be the biggest litigant..."
I fail to see how this is away from what anonymous is saying. The litigant in this case is govt, and who is the govt? The politician is there to only give a nod to whatever twist and turn is given to any issue by the "govt". Who are these higher ups who despite of being almost reprimanded by the Supreme Court of India, go on filing litigations? Why are they against the welfare of armed forces, especially the retired ones?.
In these respects, I tend to agree with anonymous that yes, the "govt" being run by IAS by proxy is very much responsible for the total degradation in all walks of life, and also for Armed Forces. It is the colonial mindset that is allowing such degradation to take place. Once this degradation is stopped, things will begin to fall in place.
A also agree with Fighter that reform is not going to happen any time soon. However, the design, intent and modus operandi has to be seen and learned so that every one can see what is happening.
AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS THAT THE BABUS GET EMBOLDENED TO DO THIS:
It is , therefore, most humbly and respectfully prayed that this Hon'ble Court may be pleased to pass the following orders:-
(a) Recall the order dated 8th March 2010;.
(b) Upon notice, re-hear all the cases on merits;
(c) Admit Writ petition Nos. ......................................, grant rule nisi and hear
them finally;
(d) Call for the records of the Writ Petitions filed in the various High
Courts, .......................................... and after the completion of pleadings, hear
the same finally;
(e) Pending further orders on the application grant an ad interim stay of the order
dated 8th March 2010;
(f) Pass such other and further orders as this Hom'ble Court may deem fit and proper
in the facts and circumstances of the present case.
Filed by:
Advocate for the petitioner
Settled By;
Sh Gopal Subramanium
Solicitor General
FIGHTER - YOU DON"T FIGHT YOU GET HAD
In a lighter vain:
Why fret and fume - one against the other?
Wverybody appears to be doing his best to maintain his professional integrity and commitment!
A soldier fights the enemy up to his last bullet!
A lawyer fights the opponent up to his last appeal!
A babu screws up all up to the last thread!
Let the foulest survive!
A confirmation by the litigant department before the Court that the pettition is being filed with/without the concurrence of the Dept of Legal Affairs and attaching the copy of the file notings to the pettition could help the Court examine and admit/reject the pettition in the initial stage. The Supreme Court could perhaps issue instruction to the Registrars of High Courts to this effect and reduce the number of litigations to some extent.
Post above this- on concurrence or otherwise of the Dept of Law & Justice (DLJ).
What I feel is that such a concurrence- more often than not is taken for granted. File notes obtained thru RTI reveal, the so-called "concurrence" is non-committal.
Jargons like "Judgments do not become Statutes"- "Govt has all the powers to make its own Rules (on behalf of the President) everytime there is a need" etc are common now.
Consequently, clarifications that are issued by the Ministry/ cioncerned Depott to neutralsie a JUDGMENT becomes a statute or a "law" unto themselves!. Such despotic actions are frustrating. Aggrieved can not go on fighting everytime in the COURTS for remedy!!This is sheer harassment.
Even the HSC does not pass a punishing remark on the miscreants-For eg: Very Genuine Fundamental Pension Pairty cases quoting Nakara Judgment crop up again and again becuase the Govt violates the essence of the said judgment and related Articles of Constitution again and again!.
Everytime, similar judgments are delivered - yet the same Deptts of the Govt go scot-free and repeat the mischief again with a new set of OMs redefining the so-called Policy!.
A judgment passed for a common grievance related to "Pension Policy" and more so in terms of the Article 14 of the Constitution in the case of Rtd Maj Gen SPS Vains case Sept 2008, is blatantly denied for similar protection to CIVILIAN pensioners stating that JUSTICE provided for MILiTERY PENSIONERS thru the above judgment can not be applied to the CIVILIAN PENSIONERS giving an atrocious excuse that the pension rules are different for them!!!
How can "JUSTICE based on Article 14 of equality be different for the Citizens of the country?
There are several such HOWLERS which can be cited- all built up on concocted explanations. POOR PENSIONERS WHO HAVE NO RESOURCES CAN NOT GO ON FIGHTING.
Even Courts appear to be helpless!.
WHAT I HAVE CONCLUDED IS ALL JUDGMENTS - WHETHER IT IS NAKARA OR AKKARA - THEY ARE ALL TREATED AS ONE-TIME RELIEFS AND ONCE THE CASE IN QUESTION IS SETTLED, A FAVOURITE JARGON SOMETHING LIKE THIS- IS USED:
THE ISSUES OF MODIFIED PARITY AND THE CUT-OFF DATE ARE ALREADY "SETTLED" IN SUCH AND SUCH CASE. THE DEPTT IS AT LIBERTY TO MODIFY OR CHANGE OR INTRODUCE NEW ASPECTS ETC OF THE POLICY IN CONCURRENCE WITH THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE.
(mind that - for this note they will also add that the file need not be referred to ASG or SG as the matter had already been settled by the HSC and no new issues are involved!!!)
The above has become the "non-committal" standard "conclusive note" as the final paragraph of the Legal Opinion and what will you make of it?
The game goes on through the immature/ unjust/ unfair/ illogical mechanism of lower levels --while our Hon Minister and the CEO of judiciary go on advocating that Govt will be the most reluctant litigant!
There will be no occasions of "non--concurrence" as the players are mutually compatible and are hand & glove together!
@Fighter!! Your babu like arguments are just smart , not wise. Till now the Soldiers could be fooled by such stale innate and insincere arguments. Not anymore. Is not the quality of argument put up by some amazing you and making you run for cover. It is you who is being vague and not joining the relevant stream of thought , choosing instead to stay in shadows. You tell us who are this people who are harrassing solideirs with nothing to be gained. What drives this sick mindset which initiate these malacious apeals. Is this not a logical question???
And fact that soldiers are systematically being degraded in all manners; is not the same sick mind the driver; and for you it is not a logical question.
So what logic you prescribe for the soldiers; that they accept all injustices with grace and willingly die for this sick society led by morally sick babus ??
YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE SCARY AND UNREASONABLE. You do not want the sacrificial goats to even protest.
Get real pal. These days Chanakya is not taught in LBSA. It is part of curriculam at the IMA and NDA.
Forces have to be protected from Goons
i think this malice is universal . not confined only to armed forces .
in armed forces things are pretty much systematic.
in civil even getting pensionery benefits or GPF etc is a herculean task . in civil departments promotion committee do not sit for years together .
i am on firm on my view that the theory being projected here is that IAS or civilians are conspiring against soldiers or armed forces is not correct .
in fact going in to litigation is a national habit or our national character .
no denying the fact that armed forces must get their legitimate dues .
in fact letter of min of law is targeted towards civil departments
not armed forces .
but i am happy that on this blog people get a chance to nikalo their bhadas .
thanks
Ultimately you can see it is not the question of civil/ military vs Law- BUT:
It is the Bureaucracy being far above norms of any Law and being the supreme interpreter of Law unto themselves vs Rest- whether Civil or Military it is immaterial.
You can see how the benefits of Sixth Pay Commissions' Recommendations/ Implementations have been pirated to the highest levels of self-interests and it was a pity that even the Lt Generals were totally ignored- until a "back-door" method came to their rescue ( I mean the Com on OROP- even without a proper "Term of Reference"!!!)- that too not because they were to be done JUSTICE- but because the S30 were to be given a solace! Retd Maj Gens are still under "mercy" considerations?
ALL LIMITS OF ETHICS AND DECENCY IN GOVERNANCE HAVE BEEN SO EXCEEDED
THAT ANY NORMS OF "LAW & JUSTICE"- EVEN IN TERMS OF REPEATEDLKY PRONOUNCED JUDGMENTS & ARTICLES OF CONSTIUTION (14/16/21) ON EQUALITY/ LIBERTY ETC APPEAR TO BE IRRELEVANT!
(Another example is the Review Petition related to recent Sup Court Judgment on similar cases/appeals based on Maj Dhanapalan's Case !!!!)
@ Anonymous May 5, 2010 7:34 AM
sir now i can fully agree with your views .
the fight is between Bureaucracy and others .
all are sufferers civil or military .
thanks
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