Speed, have you experienced it while dealing with officialdom ? Chances are close to nil !
In the aftermath of the voices raised against the 6th CPC recommendations presented in March 2008, none less than the PMO had announced the setting up of a High Level Committee to look into the status, command and control issues concerning the military vis-Ã -vis the civilian hierarchy. Well, though eagerly awaited, it is yet to see the light of the day.
Fast forward, March 2010. The Hon’ble Supreme Court settled the rank pay controversy and directed the govt to release the arrears to affected officers with effect from 01 January 1986. And what happened next you may ask !, immediately a High Level Committee of Secretaries was set up to look into the financial aspect of the issue and within a period of less than a week it came up with its report that the financial damage would be more than rupees 1600 crores. The govt is now back in the Hon’ble Apex Court with a review application seeking a re-look.
Speed varies with the fact as to who is the affected party. And since when did financial burden become a reason to perpetrate an illegality ?
37 comments:
Dear Navdeep,
I always repected your sense of balance, properiety and fairplay when it came to naming agencies who are responsible for a deliberate plan and actions towards keeping their Armed Forces as "Underdogs". You even rediculed the "Notemaker" Under Secys and SO and appluaded the virtues of IAS Secretaries as being defenders of the weak.
But alas ! you are bound to get convinced that this IAS has been working as a mafia to undercut every thing associated with "defence".
Any doubts about it?
As always an excellent and incisive post. I wish and hope that people who matter and who can change things, read such posts and wake up from their slumber.
As an aside, Navdeep Sir, do you ever sleep. 4.41AM
@ Maj Navdeep
Hi Sir. I was away for a while on leave in an 'out-of-Internet' area. Am glad to be back now!!
As regards your current post, even though I agree with you in entirety but I see a silver line in this inordinate delay. That is, in the light of SC judgement on Rank Pay case (Govt's clamour for revision notwithstanding as it is going to be thrown out with disdain by honourable SC, just a matter of time!)the HLC (whenever it sits) headed by Def Secy has NO OPTION but to consider updradation of Grade Pay for all officer ranks from Capt to Brig and refix it correctly after removing anomalies of incorect fixation of Rank Pay post 5th CPC (the Rank Pay should have been multiplied by a factor of 3.5 as was the case for Basic Pay instead it was merely doubled like all allowances e.g after 5th CPC majs Rank Pay of Rs 600 was made 1200 and NOT 2100 as was reqd and likewise for all other ranks) and thereafter based on revised Rank Pay post 5th CPC, Grade Pay (after 6th CPC) needs to be reworked, taking into account 'new' Rank Pay of 5th CPC.
So we have waited for 2 years lets wait for 1 more year and NOT lose patience!!
Some body please tell the whole story. I am a late comer, please excuse.
I say Major, you are an early riser arent you? 4:41 AM!
ZACTLY WHAT THE APEX COURT HAS ALSO SAID: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/have-guts-to-take-on-bureaucrats-sc-to-govt/118102-3.html
I THINK THIS IS A GOOD BEGINNING. THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE WORKED OUT THE COST IMPLICATION SHOWS THAT
i) UPGRADATION OF ALL OFFICERS IS POSSIBLE
ii) The byoorocraps will fight tooth and nail against it.
Lets enjoy the war. However Pyrrhic the victory it will still be sweet.
Sorry, Navdeep you are late this time I came across about this news about two/three weeks ago in the Report My Signals blog wherein A reader has sent an E mail breaking this news. But why I am writing this. You seems to be allergic to my Comments. I have noticed My comment on reemployment of Brigs disappeared in couple of days from the comment on your blog. I D
Dear Sirs,
When it comes to election
freebies there is no financial burden
but when legitimate dues(overdues)of armed forces is concerned, this govt goes to hon'ble SC with this unjustified plea of financial burden. This amount to mockery of hon'ble SC judgement.
Dear I D Sharma,
Sir, firstly I do not even know you, unless you happen to be some kind of a celebrity, hence there is no question of being allergic to your comments.
Secondly, this is not meant to be any 'news', it is only meant to be a comparison of the saga of two high level panels.
Thirdly, it would be better if you realise that only because you happened to press the 'enter' key on your keyboard after venting your rants does not mean that I am duty bound to provide a forum to the same.
Thank You.
Dear Maj Navdeep,
Nicely put across.
IPL:Millions siphoned off by you all know who?.....Financial burdon on the Govrnment= NIL
Train derails: losses in terms of money=500 Crore Plus Loss of lives but Financial burdon on the Government=NIL
Black Money in this country= estimated to be 25000 Crores....Fiancial burdon to the Government=NIL
Bribes exchange hands in this country=About 10000 Crore a year, Financial burdon to the Government=NIL
Electricity Thefts runs into 12000 Crores a year but Burdon to the Government=NIL
Soldiers Dues not payed Since 1986.TOTAL FINANCIAL BURDON=1600 Crore......ITs A HUGE MONEY dears How can Govt pay?
well said Navdeep,
As we say in service Good luck and God speed, we need both the luck and God on our side if any speedy judgement has to come
rank pay issue.govt is culprit.their very existence is by the rule of law as provided in the constitution of india.enjoying that provision of the constitution ,they do not want to honour the other provisions -judicial verdict by SC.
they both ministers and beaurocrats run to SC when their positions are disturbed. this hypocracy is glaring.
rightly pointed out by maj navdeep.
the already sanctioned fin benefits to officers and men will ever see the day light???
the wait for payment of arrears from 01/01/1996 for pbor is unending.
Dear All concerned,
Our group is one of the most active Civilian and limited Miltary pre-2006 pensioners group fighting for correct MODIFIED PARITY for the pre-2006 pensioners, SINCE THE PAST ONE AND HALF YEARS.
In a lighter vein. someone asked if Maj Nav is an early riser (like me? I get up at 03 30 am and go for walk by 4 am)). But on Modified Pairty issue - if he is "really and deeply" involved NOW- whether early or current- I would consider him to be "in" at the right time!!
Already Rtd Lt Cdr Avtar Singh's Group of Rtd Lt Cdrs/ Majors etc are in the battle for Modified Parity (besides the old pre-1996 Rtd Maj Gen Vains / currently active pre-20906 Maj Gens etc).
COMING TO THE POINT, THE "FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS/ CONSTRAINTS/LIMITATIONS" APPEAR TO HAVE BECOME THE CRUDEST and MOST UNCIVIL UNETHICAL UNFAIR UNJUST UNLAWFUL ETC ETC "PRANK" OF THE MOF/ GOVT OF INDIA TO DENY GRANT OF "PROPER- EQUITABLE" AND "TIMELY" PENSIONS/ PENSIONARY BENEFITS TO THE OLD PENSIONERS OF BOTH "CIVIL" AND "MILITARY" PENSIONERS!
Two years back I had different ideas about "military pensions" BUT NOW after coming near the "military pension community", I realised my impressions were totally wrong and what is being paid to the 2 million military pensioners are a pittance and I CONVEY THE SAME FRANKLY IN ALL MY Forum meetings which includes defence pensioners also.
IT IS ON RECORD THAT THE 20TH/ 21ST OCT 2008 CORRECT MODIFIED PROPOSAL FOR PRE-2006 PENSIONERS SENT BY DOP TO DOE WOULD COST 228 CRORES (eventhough the SCPC had covered all pension expenditures and this was a "self-imposed" financial estimate by the DOP babus unnecessarily!) - AND THE DOE IN TURN FOUND THIS EXPENDITURE AS AN EXCUSE TO REJECT THE PROPOSAL IN EARLY JAN/ FEB 2009, eventhough the "injustice" had been pointed out by two MOSs (PP and Exp/Bk & Ins) and even the Hon PMO asked for the DOP to examine the case for resolution!
What is the most callous part that appears to be is, the amount - even if it is necessary- can never be 228 crores ( as separately 2200 cr were provided for PBOR revisions in the then budget). Only about 4.5 lack pre -2006 civilina pensioners out of 19 lacks wd have been affected by the denial of Mod Pariity and hence the expenditure comes to hardly 65 to 70 crores.
NOW ONE CAN EASILY SEE WHAT IS TH TRUTH IN 1600 CRORES BEING THE ESTIMATE FOR THE RANK PAY ADDED REVISED PENSION SETTLEMENT.
HOW MANY MILITARY PENSIONERS ARE INVOLVED? HOW MANY ARE TO BE ELIMINATED? WHAT CAN BE THE AVERAGE ARREAR THAT IS TO BE PAID EVERY YEAR? ETC ETC. IF ONE WORKS OUT A NOTIONAL/ REALISTIC ESTIMATE, I AM SURE THE EXPENDITURE COULD BE HARDLY LESS THAN A THOUSAND CRORE! IN FACT THERE SHD BE ENOUGH AMOUNT EVEN AFTER COVERING THE PBOR REVISIONS -OUT OF THE 2200 CR., AS THE NORM THAT IS BEING PROVIDED IS ONLY 50% OF "NOTIONAL MAX OF REVISED PAY SCALE IN THE PAY BAND" AND NOT HIGHER!
Another important point that has been made out is that the Govt. appears to make a "mockery" of the HSC Judgments by advancing the "FINANCIAL LIMITATION" excuse to deny justice and fair-play.
I THINK A SEPARATE CONTEMPT CASE MUST BE FILED FOR "CAUSING A GRIEVIOUS DAMAGE TO THE DIGNITY, REPUTATION & STATURE OF THE HSC' BY THESE REPEATED INFRUCTUOS "REVISION PETITIONS'- EARLIER DONE FOR MAJ GEN VAINS CASE AND NOW MAY BE FOR THE RANK PAY CASE!
PIL MUST GO TO HON SUP. COURT ALSO FOR WASTING THE TIME OF THE HSC AND PUBLIC MONEY ETC ON SUCH "FALSE" CASES - LIKES OF WHICH HAD ALREADY BEEN CRITICISED BY THE LATTER MANY TIMES ON "PENSION SETTLEMENST". ERRING (MISLEADING THE COURT) OFFICIALS MUST BE PUNISHED.
I think the very fact that the financial implication has been worked out shows that the govt is keen to settle the issue.( regarding the Rank Pay)
I have a feeling that a lumpsum to cover the arrears may be given as a compromise and case closed.
However what is important is that the correct pension be worked out and refixed for ALL the affected officers.
@Ramani 9.03am .Govt. is not doing any favour to the affected officers by paying the Rank Pay arrears .As it is enough mental agony and suffering has been caused to the affected officers .Worst part is that so many affected officers are no longer with us ,as during last 24 years many officers have died without getting the benefit .Where is the question of compromise ?Correct dues should be worked out and paid without any more delaying tactics .
Dear Major,
I would appreciate if you could pass me on your email id ,so that there are some matters of concern i can discuss with you and since you are a lawyer,you may be able to help me out too.
Regards
Ravi Shankar
@Major Navdeep 4.41AM .These 1600 crore rupees belong to the affected officers and NOT to the Govt.In fact the Govt.has been earning interest on this money .This amount should be paid to the affected officers with interest without any more delaying tactics .
Lt Col Mathur is absolutely correct in pointing out the fact that "the 1600 crores with the notional interest that it would have fetched" belongs to all the affected Military Pensioners and not THE GOVT in any case!
It can be adjusted in future by LIMITING/ FREEZING THE PERKS AND HIKES OF THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE "LIONS' SHARE" in the recent SCPC Pay revisions AND DEPRIVED THE OTHERS EVEN THE "MINIMUM" THEY SHD GET.
(I AM CONFIDENT MANY ETHICAL MINDED "EXECUTIVES" WILL COME FORWARD TO DO SO- AM I CORRECT?)
Or may be another "stricture" on the lines of "Beggars""Taunt on Bureaucracy" --- is inflicted soon by the angels of justice!
THIS TIME THE HIGH JUDICIARY MUST BE REQUESTED TO "TAKE NOTE" of THE "FINANCIAL IMPLICATION" TACTIC OF THE GOVT.(THAT TOO ON THE MONEY WHICH DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM!) AND PUT A STOP TO IT FOREVER!
Any one please,
PCDA (O) web site now has scrolling message that orders for payment of arrears of rank pay wef 01 january 1986 are awaited for non petitioners from the MoD. Does it mean that orders for petitioners have already been issued by MoD? Also, what is the latest on this case?
The Govt spends crores on garlands to netas, visiting digs.arches, bouquets at every time any minister goes or come from anywhere. That is not Govt money and of public funds? Unfortunately we have double standards in the govt machineries and their thinkings.This is my man and not my man ways!Military men are accepting every thing lying down! There is definitely lack of leadership and guts! The govt should clear the dues to the military men those who have given their last ounce of devotion to duty while in service and now most of them are retired; some of them have gone to heaven also. The court should not listen to the lame arguments, to be judicious! Thats all I have to say. I have taken part in 1962 war, 1965 war & 1971 war. Retired and having khushi time! But feel bad for the way these chaps are looking at our service and our sacrifices!God bless the country!!
The Govt spends crores on garlands to netas, visiting digs.arches, bouquets at every time any minister goes or come from anywhere. That is not Govt money and of public funds? Unfortunately we have double standards in the govt machineries and their thinkings.This is my man and not my man ways!Military men are accepting every thing lying down! There is definitely lack of leadership and guts! The govt should clear the dues to the military men those who have given their last ounce of devotion to duty while in service and now most of them are retired; some of them have gone to heaven also. The court should not listen to the lame arguments, to be judicious! Thats all I have to say. I have taken part in 1962 war, 1965 war & 1971 war. Retired and having khushi time! But feel bad for the way these chaps are looking at our service and our sacrifices!God bless the country!!
critical analysis of this issue by more veterans will bring to surface the under currents of delay,denial and associated corruption comparable to scams of the past ..ipl, spectrum allocation,satyam,banks,stock market,telgi.....etc.
the estimate of 1600 cr is far from truth and ultimately when the arrears have to be admitted they will fill this inflated estimates with corruption of siphoning out this allocation by diverse methods of.....beyond our imagination.various cases of large corruption of payments to non eligible defense personnel since 4th CPC are brought to surface by some individuals;are on record.
As I have worked out-
1.effected nos upto rk of Brig,about 10k,
2.max of 600pm to 200pm for fm 1.1.86
3.for 10yrs upto 1.1.96,pay/pen with com,gra,leave enc; with DA.
averaged works out to 1.25 lac per per .at 6% simple int for 15 yrs fm 96 to 2010;90%,say 100% the amount would be 2.5 lac
4. 2.5 *10000=25000lac-250 crores
5.say 300 cr.
with the death of so many pen many claimants will not be able to realise the dues with complex rules and procedures .all that would lapse to govt like unclaimed bank deposits/dividends on shares.further,corrections, post 5th and 6th CPCs is again a long struggle and processes.ultimately it will result in minor additions with diverse interpretations and adjustments.
let more minds workout with corrections,additions,deletions....
etc.
*i am totally in picture about pay fixation done as on 1.1.86.it is an effort to arrive at accurate estimates with more minds (probably better minds) working at it.finally expose evils in the system and derive legitimate dues.
@Harry at June 4, 2010 8:58 AM
Interesting observation!
Thanks for the post.
Is the multiplication factor, 3.5 for migration of Basic Pay from Fourth to Fifth CPC regimes correct?
If so, the calculation of financial implications for the government,by the secretaries committee seems to have taken the liability of payment only upto the end of the Fifth CPC regime.
A back of the envelope calculation, taking the total number of officers affected as 40,000 in the rank of Major at the beginning of Fourth CPC gives the likely expenditure on payment of dues as 632 crores for the Fourth CPC regime and another 1008 crores for the Fifth CPC regime.
This is assuming that the affected officers were all in service till commencement of the Sixth CPC and that the payment of dues is made on 01 Jan 2011.
If all the officers continued beyond the Sixth CPC,at least upto 2011, then another 2.26 times the dues of Fifth CPC, that is 2278.08 crores (for a ten year period) would be the liability and half of that for five years becomes payable on 31 Dec 2010.
That means in addition to the 1640crores dues of Fifth CPC regime, a sum of 1139.04 crores.
Please let me know how you arrived at the factor 3.5 for multiplying the Fourth CPC Basic Pay to get the Fifth CPC Basic Pay( I could not get the Fifth CPC Report on line anywhere).
It will be an intersting exercise.
Are Harry and Original Harry, the same?
@Anonymous. The supreme Court order on rank pay will have its reprecussions on 5th and 6th cpc also which has not been taken into account in your calculations. The amout is certainly larger and the very reason that concerned officials are scratching their heads to find ways how to stop or delay it. Hopefully it should come through and that will change the status equation too. Thaks technology/internet.......
This is an illuminating bit of news. However, would someone be kind enough to provide the nature of 'petition' by the Government that seeks a 're-look', the specific reference/number of the appeal/petition etc and what is the anticipated period some form of ruling or judgement would be forthcoming in respect of the same?
@ Penmil
Dear Sir,
To be precise the multiplication factor is 3.5869 (ignoring higher decimal places!) And here's how it is calculated:-
Lowest starting Basic Pay for a newly commissioned officer in 4th CPC was Rs 2300 (in the integrated scale, as I'm sure you would recall.)
Lowest starting Basic Pay for a newly commissioned officer in 5th CPC was Rs 8250.
Now simply divide 8250 by 2300 you get 3.5869. This comes out to be the multiplication factor by which starting Basic Pay got revised after 5th CPC.
Post Script: Sir, you are spot on, I'm indeed 'original harry' in the chat box as harry id was unavailable :-)
@ Harry at June 8, 2010 8:55 AM.
Thanks for the input.
I hope we are not too off the mark in assuming a conversion ratio of 3.5 for migration from the Fourth to the Fifth CPC regimes!
I get 16700/5100, for Col Equ. , of that period,which is 3.2764706 etc.
Your illustration is also not proving the point conclusively, since, at earlier stages(ranks) the conversion factors were lower than those recommended,in V to VI CPC scales.
In the Fifth to the Sixth CPC regimes, all scales which migrated to PB3 got only 1.86, where as those which went into PB4, got an increase of 2.27 to 2.55 times (Lt Cols got the maximum increase), though the official conversion factor is 1.86+0.40=2.26, as we all now know.
A bit confusing, since the SAI (corresponding to 2 of 2008) of V CPC is not available on the web to read.
Going ahead with your inputs, I got, per officer of major rank, dues of Rs. 1,58,220/- during IV CPC,4,02,570/- during V CPC and 3,26,616/-,during VI CPC, till 31 Dec 10.
Now it is to be found as to how many officers entered the IV CPC regime with a rank of not below Capt.and not above Brig.Equ..
It may be reasonable to assume that there were 40,000 officers with an average rank of Maj.Equ..
That may give the total likely expenditure to the govt. on account of the court ruling.
say, 3600 Crores.
Thanks also for the P.S. in your mail.
It is with some privilege (self-assumed) and pleasure (spontaneous) that I support Maj Navdeep's retort to (sir) I.D. Sharma.
It is a Review petition that has been filed not an Appeal.Maj Navdeep, thankfully, was kind enough to correct me.
With the Supreme Court on annual vacation, we may have to hold our united breaths, for a dismissal of the Review petition.
Then, will the foot dragging start unless one of us files a Contempt of Court case for delaying payment?
PCDA (O) appears ready but there is nothing on the CDA (N) or CDA (AF) websites, if they have any.
Hopefully the NOK of the deceased officers and the living retired officers would be compensated soon.
Best of Luck to each of us.
Sir,
I would like to know if this forum is only for retired officers. Thanking you. Gopakumar Menon
To dear Gops: No please , even non retirees ( I wont say serving personnel)can write in this blog. You have the right of expression; but Navdeep has the right to accept or reject it's posting in the blog! So , thats that!!
2ndly: As on the calculations of the population involved in the 4th PC issue; macro analysis would divulge the following:
Str of army- 12 lacs. 5% offrs- equals 50,000
Average retirement per year being 5000 offrs ( average years of service being 33.33 years in the running line , yearly wastage is 50000/33.33= ie.5000)
Majors – 33% ie- 152.
Life span after retirement- 18 years , so the accumulation is , 2736 say 3000.
Arrears being @ Rs.3 lacs total effect at the most, the cost effect would be = 3000 x 3 = Rs.90 crores. ------ this is the first variable.
Second variable:
o Majors – yearly retirees= 152 x 24 years[ 1986 to 2010 = 24 years ] ie- 3648 offrs are involved in the case. @ Rs 3 lacs /offr, it works out to be Rs.109.44 crores
If you take an average of both, it would be a mid number= (90+110)/2= 150 crores only.
Rs 3 lacs have been taken as average arrears in the matter, incl the interest.
3rdly. The baboos cannot and should not appeal at all against the SC orders, why because it is not their baby.Money comes , money goes.
In India no one cares for Govt economy. Yes the individuals’economy is well cared for , of course.If the baboos have made some mistakes at the time of computing the pay fixation, it is a mistake, needing correction and compensation to the concerned as per natural justice. There is no question of govt;s affordability in that score! The Supreme court would stand fast on their verdict that way only; average Indians have no doubts about that!
Watch and see!
Let me state and keep on record that rank pay/pen arrears per month for officers of rks will be :-
Capt.....Rs 200 pm
Maj...... 400-600 pm,
Lt Col......400-700 pm ,
Col........zero-300 pm ,
Brig.......zero-300 pm .
these are true fig that will ultimately emerge from PCDA (o).low fig for Col &Brig because their integrated pay (basic) was given a jump to fig 4500 &4950 and thus the so called deduction of rk pay has not materially effected ,then(1.1.1986).
then add DA....,int at 6%;thus,the actual fig of estimates will be much lower than 1600 crores
I have read this blog with interest ever since I came across Maj Navdeep's posts on issues that matter to all of us. With respect to the 1600 Cr as arrears for wrong rk pay fixation, maybe we need to ask the Govt that since you have just collected over 100,000 cr from the sale of specrum to greedy telecoms, which was released to the Telecom Ministry by the three services after a fair amount of arm twisting, is is not fair that the coffers of the GoI, which are fairly swollen with this loot! (to put it mildly), can be denuded of 1600 cr to compensate those who have served honourably and are still being blatantly short changed by mean, malvolent and miserly babus!
The sanguine attitude of many reflects the truth - all eligible officers have waited 24 years and so what is 12 months more?
But are we also being complacent? How do we assume that the Review Petition would be thrown out?
Are we prepared to file individual petitions? 40,000 of us flooding the courts in various States that we reside in?
Is that what Sarvashri A.K. Antony's Ministry of Defiance (MOD) wants? Haven't the bureaucrats of MoD developed callouses being rapped repartedly on their knuckles?
Dear Navdeep
Your this site is very popular among Faujis. The info is very useful as only very few service personnel are aware about the benefits they have from Govt due to peculiarity of service. Your website can be also a great help to Faujis for their second career options as many companies can place their recruitment demands thru this site. You may like to look into this aspect for the good of our community though big but still like orphaned.
All the best
Narendra Kumar
Confessions to a Shadow File
(as dreamt by the author)
Reading all the sundry "defence" (or is that defensive?) blogs, I feel like Roger Federer winning a match against Sania Mirza – you know that feeling of a true professional winning against a media-hyped one.
I wrote yet another incisive letter to the Vitta (Finance for your information) Mantri and also the Raksha Mantri on why we should not pander to the media-hyped Armed Forces in paying the arrears of rank pay from 1-1-1986 with 6% interest.
You know how I hate the beginning of the year! First, 1-1-2006! As Secretary of the Sixth Pay Commission (SPC), I had to educate my fellow-bureaucrats and then as Expenditure Secretary I had to impress up on the Vitta Mantri on how we could delay implementing the approvals for the Defence Forces.
If it wasn’t for the Chief of Naval Staff-cum-Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee and the support of the Chief of Air Staff and Chief of Army Staff, we would have got away as we did in 1986!
So, how do we save Rs 1600 crores (assessed by an anonymous High Powered Committee) that we need to pay as arrears? No problem! We have not implemented so many recommendations of the SPC for the Defence Forces
Then, if it does not work a good example for sleeping is that Bhopal Gas tragedy of 1984 for which we constituted a GOM in 2010. Going by that and in case our Review petition fails in the Supreme Court, we can constitute a higher Powered Committee in 2011 (25 years, eh?) and follow it up by the GOM and by then I would have retired from service or be appointed to the Election Commission (and have immunity from legal action.)
Now, there should be no problem – former CNS has been exiled and sent away to New Zealand, former CAS has been appointed to the Board of the Titanic, oops, Air India (so we have a scapegoat ready for the ultimate failure of AI) and the former COAS is busy fighting that dirt kicked up by another Prakash (not Arun, that is another story for another day).
Clever na?
SN
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