The
defence community would be pleased to know that the Prime Minister’s office has
directed the constitution of an anomalies committee to look into many vital
anomalies affecting serving and retired personnel and also their families.
The
best part of the directions signed this week is that the committee is to submit
its recommendations within a month and the implementation of the accepted
recommendations may also be announced on 15 August 2012, thereby marking a
radical signal of positivity.
Though
a chunk of the bureaucracy in the Ministry of Defence was not inclined to let
any such committee come through, this has been possible due to multiple
channels of Track-II diplomacy and the stellar efforts of the Pay Cells of the three services which evoked direct response from the Raksha
Mantri who then took it upon himself to get this committee approved from the
Prime Minister personally and directly without being blinded by comments of
lower bureaucracy of the MoD.
The
only negative offshoot is that the committee does not have any serving or
retired military member and that a proper consultative process was not
initiated before identifying the anomalies which required immediate examination.
Ideally, the stake-holders should have been a part of the process. However, the saving grace is that the committee has been granted the authority to co-opt any additional member if required. The Committee shall function under the Cabinet Secretary with the Defence Secretary, Secretary Ex-Servicemen Welfare, Secretary DoPT, Expenditure Secretary and Principal Secretary to PM, as members.
Howsoever
we may view the development, many important issues such as Non-Functional Upgradation, enhancement of pensions of widows, One Rank One Pension, dual family pension, fixation of pay of Lt Cols/Cos/Brigs, enhancement
of Grade Pays, universalisation of scales, grant of
HAG+ to all Lt Gens, removal of pay anomalies of other ranks etc have been
listed in the charter of the committee. Five anomalies concerning serving personnel and four concerning veterans and pensioners shall be taken up. One surprise (and actually infructuous) entry in the list of anomalies is that the committee would be looking into the issue whether a handicapped family pensioner could be granted family pension on marriage since as per the current interpretation, family pension to handicapped family pensioners is discontinued on marriage. However this issue already stands addressed by the Hon'ble AFT in the case of Vinod Kumar Vs UOI and the judgement also already stands implemented and hence the inclusion of this point in the committee seems totally redundant once it has been judicially adjudicated.
It
is however surprising that while the PM had directed that the constitution of
the committee may be publically announced, the same has not been done by the staff
at MoD till date despite the fact that the directions were conveyed by special
courier (by hand) to the MoD for immediate action by the PMO.
79 comments:
Je Baat
Dear Navdeep,
Let us use this blog to develop a cogent memorandum which can be submitted to the Committee by you.
dear sir, why don't the armed forces have any say in the anomalies committee as others keep updating theirs and v see theirs on gconnect,
issues like
the extra tax on field allces being deducted by the cda because the exemption being given today is based on notification for exemption of field allces of vth cpc
additional increment for officers promoted between 1st jan 2006 to 30 jun 2006,
amit
all those armed forces personnel reading this blog should inform this development to the higher ups so that those who can make changes, such as pay cells, ms branch, p staff etc, are aware and continue to track developments and contest the anomalies before they are finalised.
@ maj navdeep
for all the criminals, one innocent should not go punished.... start the chatroll please.
Sir,
The Cabinet secretariat had published the the following just before (at 18.03 hrs):-
=============================
The Government has decided to constitute a Committee, under the chairpersonship of Cabinet Secretary, to look into pay and pension related issues of relevance to defence services personnel and ex-servicemen. The other members of the Committee will be:
(i) Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister
(ii) Defence Secretary
(iii) Secretary, D/o Expenditure
(iv) Secretary, D/o Ex-Servicemen’s Welfare
(v) Secretary, D/o Personnel and Training
The Committee’s ‘terms of reference’ will be to look into the following issues relating to:
(i) Defence services personnel:
• Common pay-scale for in-service JCOs/ORs
• Initial pay-fixation of Lt. Col/Colonel and Brigadier/equivalent
• Review and enhancement of grade pay
• Placing of all Lts General in HAG+ scale
• Grant of non-functional upgradation (NFU) to armed forces personnel
(ii) Ex-servicemen:
• One-rank one-pension
• Enhancement of family pension
• Dual family pension
• Family pension to mentally/physically challenged children of armed forces personnel on marriage
The Department of Expenditure will service the Committee. The Committee may co-opt any other member. The Committee will finalize its recommendations and submit its report to the Prime Minister by 8th August, 2012.
(Source-PIB)
Lets hope PBORS get their due hitherto denied such as equal military pay and medical allowance.
its high time to press the govt to include some bold, spiny service officer in the committee as additional member as per the report. then only we can hope for something good.
I saw the ticker running on one of the news channels. Committee to submit report by 8th Aug 12. Although it is a welcome development, yet, with all the naysayers being members, much hope should not be entrusted.
extremely sorry comrades sorry 4 spoiling da party. but i would like to thank first god and than team PM for not letting the 'services' to have their says in this matter. coz we r worst than "bhashmasur". simple.
Good news about the setting up of a high powered committee with a time bound mandate. Public announcement may have been delayed due to the Presidential election.
Dear Navdeep Sir I fully agreee with Yogi s comment that you should submit a comprehensive write up before the anomaly committee but again this OROP is a long drawn out battle I feel. Let s hope for the best, ex sgt Biswajit Dey
@PBOR July 13-8:33PM
Well said my friend.Suggestions if at all any from "Services" must be vetted by some one like Major Navdeep and passed on tot eh committee. I have lost faith in the highly so called fauji staff sitting in Delhi.
Dear Maj Navdeep,
The speed at which things are moving towards its formation and hurried date of submission gives an impression this is a clever ploy by the AG and MoD to hoodwink the rank pay case hearing on 04 Sep 12. The Govt may argue that they are already on the job to redress all the grievances and anomalies and hence this case may be dropped or disposed off.Beware of the track record of this Govt and effectiveness of the RM in its follow up and implementation without any stakeholders as member.
Great news . some begning atleast.but unfortunately they are the same people in the committee who have been opposed to our demands so far and approaching the SC.Still hope they do justice ?Surpringly the Disability Broad Banding is not a part of committee.
All the same hope sustains life !
Gurdeep Singh
Group Captain (retd )
Absolutely correct. Dont be too hopeful guys and trust this 'ias officers only' group to procrastinate or handle matter in such a way, so as, either to cause slow death of all matters, or relent on a few at the cost of all.
The committee without a member from the Armed Forces, will i am sure will not carry us far. Nothing major will get addressed. The Chiefs of the three services must act now.
Two issuues not addressed by committee
1.One extre increment in prerevised scale for those personnel whose increment was due between 01 Jan -30 Jun 06
2.DACP for AMC doctors.
Dear Sir,
I thank to Lt Gen Kadayan,PVSM,AVSM (Retd),his IESM team, and of course, you, for tirelessly pursuing the matter of OROP and other related welfare schemes for armed forces personnel whether serving or retired. It is the result of efforts put by you people, we are hearing this happy news.I, once again, thank of all you.
With best wishes,
Yours soldier,
L/nk Praveen Singh (Retd)
A Committee without a Fauzi? Just forget anything substantive will happen.However be happy for atleast a month or so.
why should one feel happy? See the scenario, where RM has to approach PM to get a committee formed? (as per reports) Why can not RM do it from MoD? Any guesses?
So, committee has been announced. The terms of reference look good on paper. Why PM's office did not include a member from three services of armed forces in the first place. Why it has been left to Committee to have additional member as deemed fit by it? What is the logic? Any guesses?
What is the great hurry to give only one month time to the committee? It looks it is going to be timepass and the report of the committee will be a summary of rejection arguments already put forth by lower bureaucracy on all these matters or in the case of OROP the report of Cabinet Secretary will be referred. Do we really think that these members can understand and apply their mind afresh on a large number of issues given in the terms of reference in one month. It is a ploy to reject all the demands summarily once for all with the approval of PM. how do we think, MoD mandarins will let it across them when they are not interested in first place.
Well, Ministry of defence is supposed to be for defence personnel and look after their good. For example, ministry should be the one asking service Headquarter to forward proposals for betterment of lives of defence personnel and to ensure that all benefits extended to civilian government personnel are automatically extended to defecne personnel as well. Rather , these people reject whatever is projected (if at all army generals think of forwarding any proposal without complicating it).
Sorry to be sound low, but let us hear some good arguments for sounding positive...
must thank the bloody navy once again.Chairman COSC is Adm Verma. Let navy keep the chairman COSC post permanently as they have had some stellar guys as chiefs.Adms Arun Prakash,Sureesh Mehta, Nirmal Verma against Gens Vij,kapoor and JJ singh or ACM Naik and gang.
We have no brains,let navy do their job........
Dear All,
1. Formation of a committee is though welcome, per say, BUT...
(a) What happened to the so called High Power Committee announced by the very same PM in Dec 2008 to look into the Grade Pay and Status issues of Services offrs vis-a-vis civs after Services raised hue and cry over SCPC report? (Ans: The PM's Order NEVER got promulgated, in first place!!!)
(b) How will this Committee of Secys (CoS) headed by Cab Secy be any different this time around? (Pls recall report by last CoS headed by then Cab Secy Shri Chandrashekhar in which OROP was denied, widows pension enhancement was not talked about, a few Lt Gens got the incidental benefit of higher pay band 'cos Addl Secys had to be rescued, 70% pay as pension for JCOs/OR was not given....)
(c) Why can't GoI look beyond babus? The people who create mess in first place are entrusted to sort it out, can it get any funnier? So despite plethora of representations at all fora, IGNORAMUS Govt still does not consider it fit to incl any representation from the aggrieved community.
(d) So what is different this time around, AFTER ALL? (Ans: NOTHING!)
(e) After all OROP has been even recommended by Rajya Sabha's Petition Committee headed by Shri Bhagat Singh Koshiyari but the Govt has STILL not found it fit to accept the demand but now CoS is expected to take a decision on it after a supposedly higher ranked body has decided the issue. Perplexing indeed!!!
(f) Seeing all the a/m points, pls don't have too high hopes from this CoS. They may recommend things like NFU (it's non functional so does it really matter in reality, apart from some monetary benefit ofcourse?), widows pension WILL have to be enhanced so it WILL be recommended BUT things like status, grade pay issues MAY just be left vague and recommended to be tackled by 7th CPC (I hope I'm wrong but I this is what I feel).
(g) So finally, will the CoS recommend something substantial and that too within limited time frame? (Ans: HIGHLY UNLIKELY)
PS: In best case scenario, as the Govt is under pressure, CoS 'MAY BE ASKED' to recommend OROP, so that PM can announce it from the ramparts of the Red Fort on 15th to earn some brownie points. That would be some welcome consolation but not total victory!
It is the state of the Nation today that a soldier has to beg for his dues.
Have no doubt Gentlemen, nothing, i repeat nothing substantial will come of this committee or any such other... One blogger says it right; this is only a ruse to throw the Rank pay case off track.
Whilst fighting an enemy you dont have to see his sword, only the look in his eyes will convey his murderous intent. Look at these members of such committees and you will realise their intent.
So much for the (H)armes forces and the blood they shed
@Raj above,
Increment issue is already under consideration and should hopefully come through. Why should it be considered by this committe? This is not an anomaly.
DACP issue is already decided. Only implementation is pending. again not an anomaly.
Dekhiye sirs, my assessment and guess about this committee is:- 1st. nothing would happen on OROP front, as its almost all granted to PBORs. 2nd NFU and enhanced pension for widows, likely to be. 3rd. One increment for 1-1-06 to 30-06-06 is a guaranteed. Notwithstanding, let’s hope on OROP too. Jaate jaate. What you expect from politicians ( if not politics). Mujra ??
anonymous above,
how do we know whether present Chairman COSC is doing the great stuff ? So, let us reserve our praise? Let our general officers and others involved see that the anomalies are resolved, then only one must rest.
My sense is that in the garb of giving recommendations, this committee will create more anomalies in the already settled issues as well. The aim of the committee will be to refer all the matters for the next pay commission and by that time, so much confusion would have been created with NFFU for civilian personnel, that defence services will be at the bottom of protocol and commissioned officers will be equated with class 4 /group D employees.
again sounding negative, that is how it has been so far. Any one who can infuse positivity is welcome. With the attitude of ministry and our generals, what will come through will be a complete cocktail/mocktail of ideas.
Dear Navdeep,
Cynicism is rampant amongst us but a step forward is a step forward however small. August isn't far, lets see what this committee has to say about these crucial issues. :)
While it is very likely that this is a ploy to thwart the Rank Pay Case, where the Solicitor General has been missing for the last two years,we lose nothing in being positive about the outcome of this committee.Chairman IESM should try to get co-opted and include left out items like Broad Banding of Disability Pension included for consideration by this committee.
Dear Major Navdeep Sir.
It is indeed a very good news that Major Sandeep Singh's Blog and every body's efforts have brought some positive results but what happens to the pension of Pre 2006 Retirees "Majors" who have been put in the PB of Lt and Capt. Even pension recommended by 6 CPC that their pension should not be less than 50% of the pay band doesn't seems to have been listed in the issues listed in terms of refrence.Kindly ensure that this matter is also gets listed in terms of refrence.
Moreover.Cdr Avtar Singh mail states that this matter was listed in the Hon'ble Supreme Court and the first hearing was on 6th Jul.
Also on this Subject Col Ranbir Lamba Sir had stated that the matter has been approved in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha and is awaiting Ascent of Hon'ble President of India.
May I have your views please ?
Sqn.Ldr S N Sharma (Retd) (Baroda)
My e mail sattu_sharma2001@yahoo.com
Sir, What happened to Rajya Sabha Parlimentary report? The Govt. is just doing timepass upto 15.08.2012 and then will form again a committee of AFS to keep it from agreement of anamolies and implementation till the 2014 Elections. Thank you start chatroll sir.
Jps Shergill I have two observations to make.
16 minutes ago · Like
Jps Shergill 1. No Defence rep. has been coopted in the committee.I don't expect much from the babus. 2. There is no mention of Disabilty Pension in the terms of ref. And finally no dead line has been set,The end result may not benefit many veterans during their life time.
7 minutes ago · Lik
Dear Navdeep,
It would be nice if we can:
1. Build a good case for NFFU. Historically the Army officers had pay equivalence with ICS and IP in pre-47 and with IAS and IPS post-47. In terms of entry level qualifications, entrance test and specialized training, the armed forces qualify to be equal to Group A services of Central Government.
2. Demand implementation of Section 47 of Equal Opportunities Act 2005 for the Armed Forces All Rank with suitable provision of lateral intra and inter-organization redeployment.
3. Common pay scale and ACP for JCO and Soldiers by merging existing groups into one group.
encouraging news,but considering the track record of babu's v all r expressing doubts about outcome.
any way " dosto thodi der has lo"
If one was to look at the past records of such committees one should not expect much from this one as well.Even at the cost of being labelled as a pessimist I will not be hoping for any thing.
Col P B Singh(Retd)
well, i was just thinking what led our dear RM to go to PM to get the formation of committee announced? Does that mean that RM writ does not run at all (it does not run for most of the things is well known) in the MoD? Why did not the PM ask our dear RM as to what is the need for a new committee as earlier high power committee never assembled and that was to be headed by mr pranab mukherjee? It all seems hogwash to a common fauji. After four years of 6cpc acceptance by the government, none of the anomalies of the defence services have been removed whereas on civil side, day in and day out clarification, amendments, improvements are being announced on the 6 cpc recommendations. but for faujis, everything is quite, nothing is moving and there is no information in the environment and even in media as to what is happening to the anomalies.
And now all of a sudden, this development. The situation is so bad that even this news of formation of a committee does not seem to have cheered anyone in defence services. And the larger question is, that even if one odd grievance is resolved, MoD will ensure that instructions issued are so complicated that the same will never get implemented or the benefits will be toned down completely.
I hope pay cells and COSC secretariat is not sitting on the laurels of getting the committe formed. i hope, they will ensure that their views are put across clearly and forcefully in the committee meetings ( How many meetings can they have in one month leaving aside holidays and of course the availability of members is another question).
some one said negativity does not take one far but for defence services in our country even positivity does not take you anywhere.
Let us still remain hopeful that we will see a day when the government will give faujis their well deserved dues.(inspite of MoD and the generals)
The broad banding (Rounding)of disability pension which has been affecting many veterans has not benn included in terms of reference. The same rounding off has been given to civilian employees.
Now that the Committe has been set up, lets be positive about the outcome. But important it is to mount pressure for inclusion of an articulate serving/retired fauji in this Committee. Also, Maj Navdeep would do a great service to the Indian military, much more than he has been doing and which by no means is anything insignificant, if he completely devotes the next 25 odd days to this matter, in ways he only knows to be the best, so as to get the best results.
BTW, already some self serving ex-faujis with a history of milking the ex-servicemen for their own political and financial goals, have started taking credit for the setting up of the Committee. It would be worthwhile to ask such people if they could guarantee a positive outcome from this in advance.Or will they only become active again if something good actually gets announced on 15 Aug 12.
Rank of inclusion of CAPT(TS)and officers from Army & Airforce was promulgated in Mar2005, with effective date of 16 Dec 2004.The pay of such CAPT(TS) was to be revised as on their next increment date in 2005 and then refixed as on 01 Jan2006.i.e., date of implementation of 6thCPC report.The revised and refixed Pay scale of COL(TS) was promulgated vide corrigendum dated 10Dec2008 to SNI 3/S/2008. Moot question is should not such a revision and refixation vide this corrigendum be also applicable to all those COL(TS)who were promoted but retired prior to 01 Jan2006.
How will the NFU affect fauj? By the time u get the benefit of it as a col/Brig...u'l be at the fag end of ur career, unlike babus who will start enjoying these benefits at 14 yrs of service & draw Maj Gen pay. So B class??
@Capt Sharma: You have written about emoluments of Col(TS).
The fact that AVS-I was implemented in the middle of the period between V and VI CPC's led to a number of anomalies, amounting to discrimination in my opinion, relating to pay of serving personnel and pensions of veterans.
I have tried to highlight some of the issues related to the matter.
The composition of the Committee does not inspire much confidence.At this stage PMO will do well to co-opt people like Rajeev Chandrasekhar MP, Colonel Rajan Srinivasan & our legal luminary Maj Navdeep Singh who have always wished well and spearheaded the cause of ESM's.
Well said, Raghubir.
We need guys who do not have the Jarnail's motto - 'Yes,sir! Anything you say,sir!!'
I am amazed at sense of despondency and escapism displayed by more than ninety per cent commentators. Now it is crystal clear to me that so called 'leaders-of-men' are nothing but a bunch of losers.
yogi Sir,
your observation is bang on. I am sure eternal optimist like you and balance 10 percent will do something to change the scenario. And I am sure you must be having the basis to remain eternal optimist while being in fauj/ESM.
I hope and pray that breed of optimist faujis grows in size and stature...
Dear Sir, Thanks to PM sir, for ordering a committee to redress the grievances/anamolies but is it possible to give treatment without having a patient who can explain his aches/pains. There must be a rep from the services/exservicemen. The agenda is incomplete without including the Disability rounding-off benefits where thousands of exservicemen are approaching AFTs. Hope for the best.
in the list of matters referred to the commitee, i do not find the case of revised pension of hony. officers of lt/capts which the armed forces tribunal ,chandigarh ordered and not yet implemented by the govt.will the retd. hony officers get justice?
hfo[ retd] r.raghavan
Dear sir, Military service pay is not equal of all Ranks. I think it should be equal for all ranks or it should be fixed as per pay band.
@ Yogi
"...sense of despondency....bunch of losers."
Sir,
What can you really expect of those who have been diabolically and systematically emasculated? They have ZERO say/hold outside their own domain and things don't seem to be really changing.
I dare say that the most hackneyed phrase of so-called 'one of the best' armies of the world may not really be so after all and AFs may falter IF and WHEN truly tested in future if things don't improve drastically. And seeing the present state, it should hardly come as a surprise. Some of the major reasons for the sense of despondency are :-
1. Continuous and incessant downgradation in rank and status vis a vis civs thus rendering the Services' career LEAST attractive in job options.
2. No say in the Govt hierarchy even on matters of national security.
3. Glaring and critical deficiencies in weapons. amn, eqpt and cadre strength (both quantitatively and qualitatively).
4. Systemic apathy and neglect of Servicepersons/veterans alike by the Govt on every issue ranging from National memorial to Disability compensation.
5. Hostile bureaucracy denying every single due and political leadership totally unable to rein in babus thus further alienating Services.
6. Total inability of the top brass to get their command their justifiable dues be it in terms of pay and allowances or other benefits like better career prospects/ lateral absorption.
7. Services brass are by no means 'angels' as they are equally guilty of strong biases and parochial thinking (cases in point DACP, NFU and AVSC vacs distribution, to name a few). This itself causes deep resentment and rift amongst offrs cadre. In the recently declassified SB3 result the selection percentage was as low as 22% & 24% for RVC & EME (94 Batches)respectively to as high as 53% for Arty (97 Batch) and selection bd was not held for Inf and AC (whose selection percentage is above 60% in any case and 98 batch is due for promotion in Dec 12). BTW it was no better for my Arm and Batch (Sigs, 95 Batch-31%.
PS:
1. We certainly don't need China and Pak as en, we have enough in house to keep us at loggerheads and divided.
2. You may accept the reality or dismiss these as rants of a disgruntled and superceded offr. The choice is entirely yours, Sir
@Abe July 13-8:33PM : fikre duniyaa mein sur khapata hun / mein kanha aur yeh bawaal kanha :-))
The only way our problems can get solved.
Election to lok sabha is coming in 2014.No party is going to get a majority.In that case even a single lok sabha seat would count to determine who is going to rule the country.(see how Mamta and Mulayam are getting pampered now even for a President and Vice President election).Our servicemen and ex servicemen should become a vote bank.All units to ensure that every officer and jawan become a voter and ensure that they go for voting.Ex servicemen should have leader who is not from any political party and who can argue the case and influence the masses of exservicemen.
This is the greatest advantage we have.This is the time we should use it for our advantage.
No representation or attempts to compare with other services is going to help.
dear Navjot,
News is very interested. But no fruitful decisions from the govt is expected. Take the example of short service commissioned officers. Their promotion is not yet approved.Even after putting 10 years in commissioned service these poor guys are retiring as Lt only. other embarrassing situation is our polyclinic. Why cannot govt give approval of the treatment of our veterens in all govt or superspeciality hosps directly because polyclinics are located limited places and procedure is very complicated. T P Kurup Ex Army
Dear Sir,
Good news about the setting up of a Committee on defence pay and pension anomalies with a time bound mandate.
-----------------
The Hony Commissioned Officer's (Army) are omitted from the pension revision in the latest letter A copy of GOI MOD letter No. PC-10(01)/2009-D (Pension/Policy)-
Vol.II dt. 27.03.2012
The Hony Commissioned Officer's (Army) are hope the above omission is rectified by the Committee
Military service pay should be equal to all ranks.MSP for officers is Rs 6000/-p.m where as it is Rs 2000/- for JCOs as well as ORs. Either it should be equal to all ranks or the MSP of JCOs should be hiked to Rs 4000/. The difference between grade pay of Sub Major and Subedar is only Rs 200/-. The rank of Sub Major in Army is very important and responsible position and the tenure is only for 4yrs. So the pay scale of Sub Major should be brought to PB-3 from PB-2.
I have read most of the comments
but the fact remains that the govt,especially Dr MMSingh himself is under pressure from various quarters of his govt, he may act this time to show that he means it now
He must b anxious to salvage his own position also
So relax and wait for another 30 days
One must be optimistic.See the timing of the announcement.Elections are not far off,most of public is not happy with congress,importance of 1.5 crore votes of service & ex servicemen,time bound submission of report ie 8 Aug 12 so that announcement can be made by PM on 15 Aug from Red Fort, inclusion of PS to PM in the committee.All are positive indications.
sir,it is in fact surprise to note that the anomoly committee has to submit the geniunity of the long pending demands of serving and veterans without the actual paricipants in the previous wars.atleast one person who took part in the war must be a member to appraise the hardlife of soldiers during wartime.Neverthless let us be optimist and wait for the fruitful outcome of the committee.comparing to the civilians the armed forces personnal get less pay due to their entittlement in kind.but while the military personnal retire their pension is calculated basing on their last drawn pay only without accounting the value they received in kind.therefore the OROP demand is geniune to jawans and officers
Sir,
It is once again surprisingly brought down the intellect of the armed forces veterans by not including any of the veterans in the anamoly committee constituted by P.M.
Veterans specially from the PBOR community should be included in the committee.Still something is better than nothing. A provision should be made to hear from the ex-servicemen associations before making any recommendation.
S.Sengupta, ex-Sgt.
Sir, it seems that the chatroll has started but on comments to blogs in the site. i.e. PBOR, BCV, Harry etc. Then why not start it?
Yours faithfully
Tukaram V Manerajurikar
That the Chairman COSC,Admiral Verma & the his colleagues, Air Chief Marshal & the COAS, having made a collective presentation to the Committee headed by Cabinet Secy, & the issues related to ESM, most importantly, OROP, having been put forward, we should have faith in our Chiefs & await the outcome. The ESM Orgs' ongoing efforts must have made the Chiefs alive to the environment, the issues ESM want the Govt to resolve, & hence this step by them.
A presentation by the 3 Chiefs has been a rarity & thus be viewed as a positive step & not viewed as one whereby the COS(Committee of Secys)will give no importance to it at all. Surely, such a vital input just can't be ignored & the COSC will definitely react to any findings/recommendations which are based on inputs other than what it has provided.
For us to continue to berate the IAS officials & also be critical of our Chiefs, & more importantly, The PM & RM too in the same vein, would indicate a negativeness in our thinking. Am appreciative of what has been the past experience but would want to think positively about this development. All ESMs should be appreciative of the collective effort of all ESM Orgs that have been working tirelessly towards resolving issues related to ESM. Salutations to each of the Orgs & the leaders.
Am looking positively for betterment of things in the foreseeable future.
@indianmilitary benefits
Telling everybody to be positive is very easy. If everyday morning first thing you do to your son is kick him thrice on his back side for years and years and then after 15/20 years you ask him why he is negative then it is your fault not his.
very positive move. its the HOUNERABLE PM WHO KNOWS THAT TIME HAS TO DO SOME THING FOR OUR ARMED FORCES TO GAIN HIS PARTY SOME STANDING.
Navdeep Sir, I have just seen the you tube video by Day & Night news. there Gen surjit singh made a comment that OROP will be announced by the PM on 15th aug and all calculations are alrrady made by the govt. Do you agree with this comment I very much like your ceisp and to the point answers and your depth of knowledge over the subject vis a vis Gen singh who was two time member of army pay cell and such a senior officer. furthermore when your chat roll will start I am eagerly waiting for it.
Sir, above Ex-Sgt. Biswajit De, can I have is emailid? I think he is my batchmate of Indian Air Force of CLK/PA entry 1975? Please if possible do the needful Sir.
Here's a very basic question. If NFFU is implemented, how would it affect the pension of a pre 01 Jan 2006 Lt Col/Lt Col(TS) pegged at 25700/- in this table?
Here we're proceeding on the assumption there is no OROP but the pension has to be refixed, after NFU is granted to presently serving officers, on the 'bottom of the band' principle.
thnak god that there is no general from forces in pay panel it may be blessing in disguise they would have stuck in there own ego
OROP- Should truly mean one particular amount of pension per month,to a retired person
weather he is a General of Sepoy.Retired persons onely shall have one rank ie- PENSIONER.The
pension should be sufficient for a dignified living.No one shall be entitled for astronomical
amounts of money after retirement for enjoying luxurious living.The same rule shall be applicable to all civil servants also.
@Dhoop,August 6, 2012 9:20 PM
This response is to bring the topic back into this thread.
You had asked if pensions of pre 2006 veterans would be affected if NFU or NFFU is granted to serving personnel.
The answer should be 'No'.
The pensions of the serving personnel would be certainly improved, when they retire, since that retirement would be at a higher pay.
On NFU or NFFU too, the perception that all officers would retire in the "'pay 'scale'" of HAG might be wrong.See Rajkumar's post on Navdeep's “Out of Turn Promotions………………alredy issued” at August 8, 2012 5:02 PM .
In the NFFU for civilians too only the next higher grade in the hierarchy is assured, provided the officer is otherwise fit to be promoted to that grade.You may see the link http://90paisa.blogspot.in/2012/08/dopt-issued-faq-on-non-functional.html
@Penmil:The pensions of pre VI CPC veterans were revised in relationship to post VI CPC pay bands. That is how pensions of previous pensioners get changed after a CPC otherwise they would have remained the same.
Now, pensions of a pre CPC retiree is not equal to that of a post CPC retiree. That is why we're asking for OROP. But the pension of a pre CPC retiree does get revised upwards, presently on the basis of 'bottom of pay band' principle.
So, if post NFFU the pay scales are revised upwards, so would be the 'bottom of pay band'. That would impact the pensions of the pre CPC retirees, would it not?
@thankachha:"Retired persons onely shall have one rank"
Land owners should have only one sized residential plot in Vittal Mangalore as well??
@Dhoop.I agree with the contents of the first two paragraphs.
“So, if post NFFU the pay scales are revised upwards, so would be the 'bottom of pay band'. That would impact the pensions of the pre CPC retirees, would it not?”
I think revision of pay scales and introduction of NFFU, are two independent and different issues. I have no idea of what is proposed for, in either of them.
NFFU as it is now in vogue is personal to its beneficiary. It does not alter the pay structure. Hence neither pay scales nor pay bands are altered after NFFU. Unless a different proposal and meaning to NFFU is being introduced by the services.
Do you have any details of the proposal made by the services and considered by the Committee of the Cab Sec and other Secs?
You know that the principle of ‘bottom of the pay band’ is itself shaky and is already under question by the verdicts passed at the two tribunals, a military and another civil.
Lt.Col /Lt Col(TS), being at the bottom of PB4, even if ‘min of pay in the pay band’ is implemented, the pension on min pay in the pay band for Lt Col will only be Rs. 38,530+8000+6000=52530/2=26265………………… instead of Rs. 25700/-which is pension based on the min of Pay Band 4.
See SAI/2/S/08 for min of the fitment pay for Lt.Col.
One guess is that in the ‘revision of pay scales’ etc the services could ask for equating with the correct pre 2006 civil pay scales such as S-25 etc.If that is agreed then there will be substantial upward revision.
But that is a guess.
Formation of Committees and thereafter not really acting on their recommendations have been very common in our country.
The very fact that no representative from amongst the serving / retired armed forces personnel has been included in the so called committee is a clear indicator that nothing tangible is likely to come through.
Also I find that the Committee's terms of reference did not include 'settlement of the existing anomaly relating to fixation of 'rank pay' since the IVth Pay Commission.
I sincerely hope and wish that all the three Chiefs now put liaise and coordinate with the Defence Minister and even the PM and let the matter not die down.
As per reports, today (08 Aug 2012) the Committee must submit the report to the PM and hence the Chiefs must remain proactive and try to keep Mr. Antony on the right track.
Finally, I hope and pray that the Almighty grants sense of propriety,fair play and wisdom to all concerned and help resolution of all the anomalies without any further loss of time.
With best wishes to all.
Yours sincerely,
Wg Cdr PK Sanyal (Retd)
@Penmil: My assumption is that since serving Officers would be in the next higher payband with NFFU, their pensions would be based on the higher payband the bottom of which would be higher than the lower payband. The existing pensioners would also have to be fitted into the higher payband even if at the bottom.
But I'm only speculating. Perhaps Maj Navdeep could throw some light on it.
I also don't see why one-time-full-parity was not asked for post VI CPC considering the substantial jump in the pay scales of serving personnel. It had been granted on one earlier occasion after a CPC, I keep forgetting when. That would have met most of the requirements till VII CPC. I think something on those lines has already been implemented for some sections of AF veterans, though not all.
@Dhoop,
I agree. The details of the proposals made and proposals accepted are not known, on NFFU and OROP.
Its therefore a 'shot in the dark' to speculate/discuss what will be awarded.
Now that Navdeep has a post dated 09 Aug 12, on the subject encompassing all the aspects, we may return to that post for discussions on NFFU as well as OROP/Parity etc.
i am still very positive of our PM
WILL NOT DILLY DALLY, BUILD FALSE
HOPES FOR THE COUNTRY MEN,THAT ALSO
UNIFORMED MEN.
Now with this judgement on Rank Pay by the Hon. Supreme Court on 04-09-2012, will it have a bearing on the pay and pension panel set up by the PM. I mean in the negative or may be a negative fall out.
Hi I am Sub Rajeev Kumar. Please clarify in detail, the concept of common pay scale to JCO/OR.
Please intimate regarding the pension table as per direction of Government of India, Ministry of defence for revised pension paid to Armed Forces PBOR & Honorary Naib Subedar of group 'Y' defence personnel who have transferred to pension establishment pre and post 2006 on accepting the long pending demand of one rank one pension on 24 September 2012. With best regards, Honorary Naib Subedar Vijai Kumar
Please intimate regarding the new pension table & the pension of Honorary Naib Subedar who have served in Army as Infantry Soldier in Group 'Y' and retired on completion of 24 years service on or after 01 January 2006 as per instruction of Government of India, Ministry of Defence on accepting the demand of one rank one pension on 24 September 2012. With Best regards, Honorary Naib Subedar Vijai Kumar
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